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RE: Failure Lessons

Abu Dina — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:31:58 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (11/15/2012)[/b]The key word here is "documented". Otherwise, they can just deny they told you to do it in front of the executive folks, or claim "I don't remember telling you to do that.". I have often said in this cutthroat business, you live or die by email. They can't deny recorded email. For example, look at what General Petraeus is going through right now. The email trail. :-D[/quote]Couldn't agree more.

RE: Failure Lessons

Gary Varga — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 02:21:41 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (11/15/2012)[/b][hr][quote][b]Gary Varga (11/15/2012)[/b][hr]I always recommend that people tell the(ir) truth and have it documented. What other people choose to use, how to use it or what they decide is up to them.When told to JFDI (Just Do It) then they have chosen to ignore my professional advice. The consequences therefore remain with them.[/quote]The key word here is "documented". Otherwise, they can just deny they told you to do it in front of the executive folks, or claim "I don't remember telling you to do that.". I have often said in this cutthroat business, you live or die by email. They can't deny recorded email. For example, look at what General Petraeus is going through right now. The email trail. :-D[/quote]For those that haven't picked up on our key advice: keep your input into the decision making process documented. By confirmation emails you send if necessary!!!

RE: Failure Lessons

TravisDBA — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:49:58 GMT

Tom,Actually, it's been my experience that when people don't admit a failure upfront when they had a chance to, and then people find out about it, or come to that conclusion later, that's when I have seen people get fired. It's been my experience that when a software product fails or does not deliver the functionality or performance needed for the organization, then the appropriate research and homework was not done in the first place. Many times, it just comes down to laziness, or just not investing the legwork and time it takes to find out if the product is a good fit for your organization. I have definitely seen others try and cover that up..:-D

RE: Failure Lessons

OCTom — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:12:02 GMT

I think failures are not discussed and documented is that there is a collective fear of failure.No one wants to admit their failures because there may be consequences such as getting fired.I think the only time I heard someone actually admit a failure was in the early 1990's when a manager said the software chosen was a mistake. The manager was fired.

RE: Failure Lessons

TravisDBA — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:47:50 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (11/15/2012)[/b][hr]I always recommend that people tell the(ir) truth and have it documented. What other people choose to use, how to use it or what they decide is up to them.When told to JFDI (Just Do It) then they have chosen to ignore my professional advice. The consequences therefore remain with them.[/quote]The key word here is "documented". Otherwise, they can just deny they told you to do it in front of the executive folks, or claim "I don't remember telling you to do that.". I have often said in this cutthroat business, you live or die by email. They can't deny recorded email. For example, look at what General Petraeus is going through right now. The email trail. :-D

RE: Failure Lessons

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:46:29 GMT

[quote][b]cdonlan 18448 (11/15/2012)[/b][hr]This subject is worth a book. For starters, I think it goes as deep as our DNA and shared culture. With a nod to blinding ambition and occasional incompetence, I often see middle management not given enough authority to make the decisions necessary to reasonably achieve their software goals; so corners get cut and bad things happen. Occasionally there's a miracle. It's certainly kept me from ever seriously considering the management path.[/quote]That's interesting. I think you make some good points here.

RE: Failure Lessons

cdonlan 18448 — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:40:58 GMT

This subject is worth a book. For starters, I think it goes as deep as our DNA and shared culture. With a nod to blinding ambition and occasional incompetence, I often see middle management not given enough authority to make the decisions necessary to reasonably achieve their software goals; so corners get cut and bad things happen. Occasionally there's a miracle. It's certainly kept me from ever seriously considering the management path.

RE: Failure Lessons

Gary Varga — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:23:00 GMT

I always recommend that people tell the(ir) truth and have it documented. What other people choose to use, how to use it or what they decide is up to them.When told to JFDI (Just Do It) then they have chosen to ignore my professional advice. The consequences therefore remain with them.

RE: Failure Lessons

GeorgeCopeland — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:36:51 GMT

I have been so unfortunate as to have worked on several failed software projects. Enormous amounts of money and effort were expended building software that was eventually scrapped.My advice on this subject is this: constantly test the project. If it is not meeting requirements and especially if the software is getting worse, then STOP WORKING ON IT.George

RE: Failure Lessons

TravisDBA — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:34:28 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (11/15/2012)[/b][hr][Dates, names and location have been omitted to protect the guilty.]I recently provided a client a set of analysis with estimates twice. The estimates were, of course, longer than they hoped but realistic and achievable. The third time they asked for someone else to provide them by the end of that very day. I think my estimates were unpopular and impossible to discredit due to the accompanying analysis. So instead of accepting that their anticipated estimate was incorrect they tried to use a different method to generate a more "favourable" number.Each of these three pieces of work were sizable and mission critical.[/quote]Gary, one of my favorite lines with managers is this one:"Do you want me to tell you the truth? Or do you want me to tell you what you want to hear?" Almost always, they are not the same. :-D

RE: Failure Lessons

Gary Varga — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:30:24 GMT

[Dates, names and location have been omitted to protect the guilty.]I recently provided a client a set of analysis with estimates twice. The estimates were, of course, longer than they hoped but realistic and achievable. The third time they asked for someone else to provide them by the end of that very day. I think my estimates were unpopular and impossible to discredit due to the accompanying analysis. So instead of accepting that their anticipated estimate was incorrect they tried to use a different method to generate a more "favourable" number.Each of these three pieces of work were sizable and mission critical.

RE: Failure Lessons

chrisn-585491 — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:15:08 GMT

I wonder if Orca was outsourced to China? :-P

Failure Lessons

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:12:47 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Failure Lessons[/B]