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RE: The Best Way to Learn

Jeff Moden — Tue, 29 May 2012 19:09:19 GMT

[quote][b]Peter Maloof (5/29/2012)[/b][hr][quote][b]Jeff Moden (5/25/2012)[/b][hr]Sorry for the late feedback but thanks, Peter. I got a good chuckle from your response and it was just what I needed after a pretty tough week.[/quote]Hi Jeff,Hope you had a nice long weekend to recuperate from your tough week.[/quote]I did indeed. Unlike T-SQL, I could suffer a few more iterations of a 3 day weekend like the one I just had.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Peter Maloof — Tue, 29 May 2012 13:52:24 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (5/25/2012)[/b][hr]Sorry for the late feedback but thanks, Peter. I got a good chuckle from your response and it was just what I needed after a pretty tough week.[/quote]Hi Jeff,Hope you had a nice long weekend to recuperate from your tough week.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Jeff Moden — Fri, 25 May 2012 18:06:51 GMT

[quote][b]Peter Maloof (5/5/2012)[/b][hr][quote][b]Jeff Moden (5/5/2012)[/b][hr]The book title is "MCSE Training Guide / SQL Server 6.5 Design & Implementation. It was written to cover the old exam 70-27. It was published by New Riders Publishing and has a copyright of 1997. ISBN is 1-56205-830-4.[/quote]Just FYI, it's available for $4-5 on both Amazon and eBay.[quote]My favorite paragraph in the whole books reads as follows (from the chapter on "Programmability")...[i]"As a rule, SQL Server can minipulate an arbitrarily large set of data as a set faster than it can respond to an interative series of commands. Because most iterative solutions can be expressed as set operations with little work, cursors should generally be avoided. Thinking in terms of whole sets of data instead of individual rows is what makes the SQL language so different from other traditional programming languages. Looking for set-oriented solutions to problems is, however, an important transition to make."[/i][/quote]Now why am I not surprised that's your favorite paragraph?Thanks for sharing.Peter[/quote]Sorry for the late feedback but thanks, Peter. I got a good chuckle from your response and it was just what I needed after a pretty tough week.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Peter Maloof — Sat, 05 May 2012 16:31:33 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (5/4/2012)[/b][hr]You've got to use what you read. Otherwise, the information tends to fade quick for most people.[/quote]+1

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Peter Maloof — Sat, 05 May 2012 16:30:37 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (5/5/2012)[/b][hr]The book title is "MCSE Training Guide / SQL Server 6.5 Design & Implementation. It was written to cover the old exam 70-27. It was published by New Riders Publishing and has a copyright of 1997. ISBN is 1-56205-830-4.[/quote]Just FYI, it's available for $4-5 on both Amazon and eBay.[quote]My favorite paragraph in the whole books reads as follows (from the chapter on "Programmability")...[i]"As a rule, SQL Server can minipulate an arbitrarily large set of data as a set faster than it can respond to an interative series of commands. Because most iterative solutions can be expressed as set operations with little work, cursors should generally be avoided. Thinking in terms of whole sets of data instead of individual rows is what makes the SQL language so different from other traditional programming languages. Looking for set-oriented solutions to problems is, however, an important transition to make."[/i][/quote]Now why am I not surprised that's your favorite paragraph?Thanks for sharing.Peter

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Jeff Moden — Sat, 05 May 2012 14:13:29 GMT

Ah... sorry. My bad. I was being lazy.The book title is "MCSE Training Guide / SQL Server 6.5 Design & Implementation. It was written to cover the old exam 70-27. It was published by New Riders Publishing and has a copyright of 1997. ISBN is 1-56205-830-4.The book says its "target audience" is for advanced users but I've found it to be an excellent book for learning all of the basics of T_SQL, indexes, tables, data modeling, etc, etc. If you lookup some of the things that they're talking about in BOL, you have a very powerful teaching combination. What's really neat is, not only do they have review questions with the answers, they also have some nice, simple exercises at the end of each chapter.My favorite paragraph in the whole books reads as follows (from the chapter on "Programmability")...[i]"As a rule, SQL Server can minipulate an arbitrarily large set of data as a set faster than it can respond to an interative series of commands. Because most iterative solutions can be expressed as set operations with little work, cursors should generally be avoided. Thinking in terms of whole sets of data instead of individual rows is what makes the SQL language so different from other traditional programming languages. Looking for set-oriented solutions to problems is, however, an important transition to make."[/i]

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Peter Maloof — Sat, 05 May 2012 10:43:34 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (5/4/2012)[/b][hr]I love good books on SQL Server. Unfortunately, I've only seen one really good book to get folks started with programming in T-SQL and it went out of print back before I had any gray hair.[/quote]Hi Jeff,Don't keep us in suspense - what was the book? Out of print doesn't necessarily mean unavailable.Thanks, Peter

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Jeff Moden — Fri, 04 May 2012 20:07:42 GMT

I love good books on SQL Server. Unfortunately, I've only seen one really good book to get folks started with programming in T-SQL and it went out of print back before I had any gray hair.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

djackson 22568 — Fri, 04 May 2012 10:12:58 GMT

First and foremost, I strongly concur that Jessica Moss has done an [b][i][u]ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING[/u][/i][/b] job in organizing and conveying information on how to use SSRS. Other authors have done a similar job on other series. Not all are valuable to me, but I do feel the entire concept is outstanding. I remember what it is like to be a newbie with SQL, and these are a great starting point when first using one of these technologies.I would also like to say that while an advanced reader might be somewhat frustrated by the slow pace of the articles, I think Jessica struck a very good balance between brand new and experienced. The organization allows you to easily skip through things you don't need.As to using e-books, I see pro's and con's on this. I own a Nook Color, Nook Tablet, 2 - Kindles, 2 - New iPads, and an iPhone. I read on all of these, as does my wife. The main issue I have is the way books are overpriced on these devices. For fiction I mainly stick with free choices, and in some cases I have purchased some inexpensive selections (under $3) that have proven to be very good. Why would I pay $39.99 for an e-book that I can purchase in paper for $49.99, that typically comes with more content such as a disk?Why would I pay $9.99 for an e-book where the paper version is available for $12.99?I saw an article on a site recently that tried to sway buyer's opinions be comparing it to the music industry. You know, that same industry that (IMO) might be out of business within 10 years because muscial artists can market their own work and sell it for less than $5 for a complete album, and actually get to keep some of the money. Authors are seeing they can write a book and sell it through a number of different sites, allowing them to break into the field without having to pay a publisher outrageous percentages of their profits.So, directly to the question of would I use this, yes, if the price was right. I would not use it if I could purchase a hard copy for the same price, I prefer the book as I can set it next to my workstation and work through things, whereas an e-book has to be touched every few moments to keep it on.I am against linking. Links are for the web. Even those aren't always updated. If I purchase an e-book and want to read it a year from now and the link doesn't work, who is going to refund my money?I don't want to sound like I am against the concept, my ownership of so many readers shows I am not. I just don't like business maximizing their profit in a monopoly environment. We shall see if others agree when the Apple case is decided.Dave

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Carla Wilson-484785 — Fri, 04 May 2012 08:39:27 GMT

While I have a Kindle, with a variety of books both non-fiction and fiction, I have found it difficult to use for technical books, because not enough of the "page" is displayed at one time. Furthermore, as others have mentioned, it's hard to jump into the middle of the e-book. That's why I still buy a lot of technical books. BUT, I would consider buying an electronic "summary" of a hard-copy book, that perhaps summarizes syntax, or summarizes the key points of chapters, to serve as an easy-to-transport reference.I would also like to see a discount on an e-book when you are buying the hard-copy of the same.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Rod at work — Fri, 04 May 2012 08:35:27 GMT

I don't own an e-reader, so I've no idea of their capabilities. Someday I probably will, so I'll be watching this thread with interest.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

Len.Geoghegan — Fri, 04 May 2012 08:19:00 GMT

I like the idea of a pre-chapter quiz, to help identify what I can skip and what I should concentrate on.I also like the idea of integration with desktop apps where I could copy/paste code, link directly to the feature being discussed, etc.I don't like audio/video features in ebooks, especially when the material isn't also covered in text. With text I can scan/skip over material I already know and spend more time on material I need to concentrate on - neither of these options are easy with videos. It's also easier to find my place later in text if I need to switch to some other activity for a while. Volume and screen size can be an issue to, especially with decreasing hearing/eyesight as I get older.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

TravisDBA — Fri, 04 May 2012 07:55:22 GMT

You've got to use what you read. Otherwise, the information tends to fade quick for most people. Some SQL Server Books can make great references when you are doing domething and you need to look up a particular issue you are stuck on. Others are just good for door-stops. But as far as reading any SQL Server book cover-to-cover, well unless you have very good memory retention or you use all the information alot, I don't find much value in doing that. Not to mention, who has the time to sit down and read a 1000 page SQL Server book nowadays? Now specific topic SQL Server demo videos are a different story altogether. :-D

RE: The Best Way to Learn

DEK46656 — Fri, 04 May 2012 07:43:59 GMT

I find the approach taken to a book does more to learn the subject than volumes of content. For example, years ago I was trying to learn C, and had one or two of the various “teach yourself…” books on the subject. While reading through them, I came across (and purchased) the K&R book on C. I gained more by reading that first chapter than I had from all my efforts with the other books. I tossed them aside and continued on with K&R. I’ve found that books written in a similar format worked much better for me (The AWK Programming Language, The Kornshell; Command and Programming Language). My take away from that had been the format was important, and that these books were written by the people who wrote the software.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

MyDoggieJessie — Fri, 04 May 2012 07:38:13 GMT

Videos would be great, however, examples which are more practical would be even better. All too often I've found that the examples in most books hardly ever relate to a situation you'd encounter in your job! A brief blurb at the end of each section named "Laymans Terms" would also be ideal. What did the chapter you just read really mean? It should be written in a manner that if you had to explain it to a coworker, they'd understand it and think "oh yeah, that made sense"Setting up transactional replication for example. Reading a book in that was helpful but the gotchas that occur in real life usage is not really mentioned (like what automagically happens when you add a new article to an existing publication in an OLTP system - and SQL decides to take a brand new snapshot of the entire publication, locking each table as it bcps out the data to the network). All I can say is THANK GOD for this website :)

RE: The Best Way to Learn

jcrawf02 — Fri, 04 May 2012 07:22:10 GMT

[quote]a pre-chapter quiz that could let you know if it's even worth reading that section[/quote]Now that's an interesting idea, a skills test that could dynamically change the content of the book, showing only what you needed to learn and hiding the chapters you already have competency in. (while still having the content available somewhere should you wish to read it)

RE: The Best Way to Learn

ChillyDBA — Fri, 04 May 2012 07:21:20 GMT

I've always had a healthy technical bookshelf at home, but the problem has always been having to (remember to) cart the books from place to place. Especially challenging as a contractor.I read a lot anyway, especially on the daily bus journey, and my conversion to an ebook reader was inevitable. I agree with the comment on the rate of reading now - my Kobo allows me to read in places where I wouldn't normally bother due to the hassle of carrying a book. I have recently started obtaining technical manuals in both epub and print format, and now prefer to purchase from suppliers where this is an option. My introduction to Manning publications with the purchase of the excellent 'Deep Dives' volumes was a revelation. They sell in electronic, paper or both formats, and offer an excellent early access program which releases chapters as they are written. I know that Amazon do sell selected ebooks, but a dedicated sales channel would make them easier to find.I do read the technical manuals on my Kobo, but it really depends on the content type. For reference material (eg SQL 2008 Administration) where it's really just to refresh my memory or look up an item, the Kobo is OK, but for learning material (eg. Powershell in a month of Sundays) with code samples, it is more of a challenge. I currently buy the former as ebook only, and the latter in both formats.I find the PDF formats to be good only on traditional PCs and the larger format tablets at the moment. The current generation of ebook readers doesn't really cope well (Kobo is especially bad with these). Fortunately, the excellent free conversion/library tool Calibre does a pretty good job of translating them to epub/mobi format.The one thing that really doesn't translate well at the moment is diagrams. With a traditional book, diagrams are placed not necessarily adjacent to the text describing them (for printing efficiency/constraints) and it is relatively easy to flip forward or back to the section of text that a diagram applies to. With ebooks, there are less of these printing constraints, but the books are inevitably just straight electronic copies of the print versions, so reading can get a bit fragmented. I don't see this changing in the future, but it would be good if the diagrams could be embedded with links to the relevant text (and vice versa).

RE: The Best Way to Learn

judy 55250 — Fri, 04 May 2012 06:36:13 GMT

I've had Kindles since they first came out and tried viewing pdfs on them - I eevn bought a Kindle DX, hoping that would be better, but pdf was still too small a print size. I've converted the pdfs to .mobi and they are more readable, but a lot of the ones I read are ones I downloaded from Safari and they have annoying footers and background images with my account info to help to protect them from being passed around. Safari sent out an email that they are swtiching to ePub format.I have a Kindle Fire now and the pdf experience is better using a pdf app I purchased (Adobe wasn't very good on the Fire) but it is still a little hard to manage the screen if I need to change the type size. The app is good because I can add notes, underline, and do other things.For me, it would be good to have a format where I could resize the fonts and have the screen adjust. Maybe an option to enlarge the screenshots of examples. Links to outside references would be good, but not crucial for me. The Silk built in browser now has a feature for viewing content on webpages, where you can have a new screen come up with larger text and no menus, etc. That is really nice.I use my Kindle for tech books as a way of just reading thru them to get familiar with things or refresh my memory or to be able to read something without being at my computer or tying to manage a 1000 page book in bed. I do miss the ability to flip thru a book to find something, but I think that for me a book in two formats would be good- one a physical book where I can flip thru, navigate chapters, etc. The other a digital format where I can read the book conveniently and where I can search for terms- that is one advantage that a digital format has over the physical format. If I could only choose one format, I would choose digital for most. I could read on my Kindle and read in the Kindle reader on my desktop computer and have it on one monitor to show the book and use the other monitor for working thru examples. I like the ability to search, underline, highlight passages in the digital format.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

David.Poole — Fri, 04 May 2012 04:16:17 GMT

Training videos in e-books is a great idea!I've always loved books and read voraciously. I never thought I'd take to a Kindle given the tactile pleasure of browsing, buying, collecting and eventually reading books. I have to say that the Kindle is probably my best ever IT purchase. Apart from my previous comment on text books I'd say the only downside is that it has increased the speed at which I read. Not always a good thing when you've got a really good book.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

rharderwijk — Fri, 04 May 2012 04:03:52 GMT

I'm not into e-books. While they might come in handy profesionnally (not carrying 32lbs of SQL books is much more comfortable), nothing beats turning a real page of your new favorite novel on a holiday. Including video and audio in e-books might be added value, but I am worried that not everyone will benefit - I'm afraid publishers will block content from access from other countries, something we see with audio/video content already, and I think I've seen something similar on Amazon as well....

RE: The Best Way to Learn

David.Poole — Fri, 04 May 2012 01:42:19 GMT

I've got a number of e-books on my Kindle and for me text books don't work well on that.If they are explicit Kindle books then you can at least navigate to the table of contents and then on to specific pages.If they are PDFs then navigation just doesn't work. You can't dip into the book as you would with a physical book. This means that you can't stumble across content speculatively.The Kindle format translation service doesn't like PDFs.

RE: The Best Way to Learn

IceDread — Fri, 04 May 2012 00:44:24 GMT

Most commonly used features, programing problems, etc would have been handy perhaps. However, usually one just goes with it and when seeing something of interest that is what you learn or more commonly, when facing a problem.A couple of month ago I learned about connecting ssrs to a wcf. I didnt want calculation logic in two places, it was already in the application service layer and it would be redundant to include the same logic into another place, the database. So the data source of my ssrs report for this project was my wcf services. Perhaps that's something sql- / reporting people should know about in case you don't. However, there are many things one should know about...

The Best Way to Learn

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 03 May 2012 22:54:15 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]The Best Way to Learn[/B]