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RE: People That Get It Done

TravisDBA — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:34:20 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (12/23/2011)[/b][hr]you actually have to have proof to get rid of the unionized slouch. ;-)[/quote]Did you read the link? They had the video proof on these guys and they are still there.:-D

RE: People That Get It Done

Jeff Moden — Fri, 23 Dec 2011 16:16:23 GMT

Then you know that not all Union Workers are slouches. ;-) But I do get your point... it's a lot harder to get rid of a unionized slouch than it is to get rid of a non-unionized slouch... you actually have to have proof to get rid of the unionized slouch. ;-)

RE: People That Get It Done

TravisDBA — Fri, 23 Dec 2011 08:42:50 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (12/22/2011)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (12/22/2011)[/b][hr][quote][b]Stephanie J Brown (12/16/2011)[/b]I have to disagree; I've not noticed union workers to be any more likely to "sluff off" than exempt workers, supervisors, or managers. [/quote]Baloney!!!!!! What you are not realizing is the BIG difference here is union workers are [b]much harder [/b]to get rid of than the other groups you state in your post.If you don't believe this then check out this link. Many of these UNION guys are still on the job today, and STILL doing this!. Try that at my company and see how fast you go out the door! and the real kick in the tail is they are building engines for MILITARY vehicles!:-Dhttp://nation.foxnews.com/undefined/2011/07/14/more-union-workers-smoking-pot-job[/quote]Have you ever worked on an assembly line, Travis?[/quote]Yes, as matter of fact I have, I worked for Cadillac Gage for a short period, and I wasn't high on the job when I did. :-D

RE: People That Get It Done

Jeff Moden — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:07:23 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (12/22/2011)[/b][hr][quote][b]Stephanie J Brown (12/16/2011)[/b]I have to disagree; I've not noticed union workers to be any more likely to "sluff off" than exempt workers, supervisors, or managers. [/quote]Baloney!!!!!! What you are not realizing is the BIG difference here is union workers are [b]much harder [/b]to get rid of than the other groups you state in your post.If you don't believe this then check out this link. Many of these UNION guys are still on the job today, and STILL doing this!. Try that at my company and see how fast you go out the door! and the real kick in the tail is they are building engines for MILITARY vehicles!:-Dhttp://nation.foxnews.com/undefined/2011/07/14/more-union-workers-smoking-pot-job[/quote]Have you ever worked on an assembly line, Travis?

RE: People That Get It Done

TravisDBA — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:53:06 GMT

[quote][b]Stephanie J Brown (12/16/2011)[/b]I have to disagree; I've not noticed union workers to be any more likely to "sluff off" than exempt workers, supervisors, or managers. [/quote]Baloney!!!!!! What you are not realizing is the BIG difference here is union workers are [b]much harder [/b]to get rid of than the other groups you state in your post.If you don't believe this then check out this link. Many of these UNION guys are still on the job today, and STILL doing this!. Try that at my company and see how fast you go out the door! and the real kick in the tail is they are building engines for MILITARY vehicles!:-Dhttp://nation.foxnews.com/undefined/2011/07/14/more-union-workers-smoking-pot-job

RE: People That Get It Done

call.copse — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 02:35:40 GMT

[quote][b]djackson[/b][hr]Getting something done is important, but I do not believe Steve was looking for "just get it done". That attitude is partially responsible for the bad reputation our industry has.I'll take smart over getting things done every time, because by definition, a smart person is smart enough to understand they have to get things done correctly, on time, and under budget.[/quote]It's all relative. There is plenty of work to get done that does not require that much smart in general, although as I said there is a certain level of smart required to work at all in IT.

RE: People That Get It Done

djackson 22568 — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 16:01:43 GMT

[quote][b]call.copse (12/16/2011)[/b][hr]This puts me in mind of the classic [url=http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000073.html]Spolsky hiring[/url] diatribe on the theme of 'smart and gets things done'. To be honest in my experience the smart bit is not that important. I can live without that, but you definitely need the 'gets things done' every time.[/quote]A lawyer would object based on "assuming facts not in evidence". Come on, smart doesn't matter? I have to imagine that if we took a survey of workers and then ranked them based on "smart" and "gets things done correctly" versus "gets things done poorly", we would find a lot of smart and get things done correctly together, and a lot of not smart, gets things done poorly together.Getting something done is important, but I do not believe Steve was looking for "just get it done". That attitude is partially responsible for the bad reputation our industry has.I'll take smart over getting things done every time, because by definition, a smart person is smart enough to understand they have to get things done correctly, on time, and under budget.Dave

RE: People That Get It Done

Jeff Moden — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:13:08 GMT

I absolutely agree with taking ownership of a problem. However...The problem is that "people that make it happen" frequently aren't the "people that make it happen right". The article hints at that by talking a bit about people identifying when a project schedule is in jeapordy but I've found very few people that will actually bring up even important problems if they think it will be perceived as them causing a schedule problem. Because of that, the 4 things that suffer the most are proper design, performance/scalability, the amount of rework required, and readability/ease of modification of code which, of course, includes some embedded documentation. As a side bar, there lately seems to be a rash of articles on this site about the general topic of people getting things done and meeting schedules. Nothing about getting things done right... nothing about the ridiculous expectations of some managers... nothing about ridiculously complex projects with short timelines spawned during a shared ride in an elevator... nothing about not killing the messenger... nothing about how where if you want it real bad, that's the way you'll normally get it... and nothing about the costs of rework because people were too busy getting it done instead of getting it done right.Let's see something about the other side of the story and the real costs of putting something out that's bad simply because people rushed to meet a ridiculous schedule. Let's see something that talks about the real costs of rework and putting something wrong or non-scalable into the customers hands. Let's see something about the real costs of losing inhouse experts to another company because some manager is making promises to look good that his/her team has no chance of doing correctly and still meeting schedule without working 12 or 16 hours a day.

RE: People That Get It Done

Andy Warren — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:23:01 GMT

The point about rewarding those that get it done is well taken. I'll admin to valueing the trait but also probably too much expecting it and not doing enough about those that don't get it done. No team will have all superstars. I think the one thing that the get it doners get is the chance to do the interesting stuff. Yes, that could be manager speak for the hard stuff, but it's also usually the stuff that builds skills and careers.

RE: People That Get It Done

Andy Warren — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:19:37 GMT

Paul, yes, I do have a lawn guy:-), sort of - he cuts my grass once a week!

RE: People That Get It Done

Stephanie J Brown — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:01:57 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (12/16/2011)[/b]... welcome to world of "being scared to death of a lawsuit." ... the unions and the lawsuits are driving their costs through the roof, meanwhile they have to put up with the deadwood ...[/quote]I have to disagree; I've not noticed union workers to be any more likely to "sluff off" than exempt workers, supervisors, or managers. In my experience, most managers do not know how to document a poorly-performing employee. Or work with one to improve their performance either. Sad in both cases.I've experienced both having to deal with co-workers who refused to perform even their regular job duties, and having managers who tried to hold me to a different standard than my co-workers and team mates (not a Higher standard, mind you, just a different one). In all cases, these were resolved by appropriate action at the manager and the Human Resources level. I'm very good at documenting the realities of a situation - to the benefit of one manager, and the re-training of another (not sure how much they appreciated it at the time, but probably saved them a lawsuit later in life by nipping it in the bud, so to speak).Proper documentation will head off most of the "frivolous" lawsuits - and that includes documenting the frustrations of an employees co-workers. Treating all employees with respect and fairness to start with will head off even more. More companies ought to try that second one; it would save a lot of money in turnover rates - and THOSE carry a hefty price tag.

RE: People That Get It Done

TravisDBA — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:07:04 GMT

[quote][b]Mad Hacker (12/16/2011)[/b][hr] The sad thing is that these individuals are costing this origanization thousands of dollars every year when we already have financial issues, yet the managers take no initiative themselves to address these issues. Welcome to life in the sublic sector...[/quote]No, welcome to world of "being scared to death of a lawsuit." It has literally paralyzed many organizations today. not to mention our government sectors. Sad but true, and people wondering why no one is buying American made products anymore, the unions and the lawsuits are driving their costs through the roof, meanwhile they have to put up with the deadwood because they are scared to death to fire them. So people starting buying everything from China, or export the jobs to there or India. It's a trickle down effect. :-D

RE: People That Get It Done

Evil Kraig F — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:27:50 GMT

[quote][b]mojootti (12/16/2011)[/b][hr]There is difference between "make is happen" and "MAKE IT HAPPEN". A manager that is trusting you to do your job and is encouraging OR is there to just to make his next bonus.The doers do become the managers over time (which is a shame as one should be keeping the job he's good in) .[/quote]Peter Principle in action.

RE: People That Get It Done

mojootti — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:50:20 GMT

There is difference between "make is happen" and "MAKE IT HAPPEN". A manager that is trusting you to do your job and is encouraging OR is there to just to make his next bonus.The doers do become the managers over time (which is a shame as one should be keeping the job he's good in) .

RE: People That Get It Done

Mad Hacker — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:31:12 GMT

As working professionals, we should possess most, if not all, of the attributes referenced in the editorial. Unfortunately, in today's world that's just not the case.I work in the public sector, and in our shop we've got some older employees that are nearing retirement age that regularly refuse to accept work assignements claiming they don't have the proper skillset, even after they've received thousands of dollars in training. These same employees rarely take initiative to better themselves, yet have no problem with receiving a programmer's rate of pay when pay day rolls around.I made the mistake of complaining too loudly about a fellow employee that spent the majority of his time surfing the internet, reading the news paper and staring at the walls of his office, while i received most of the challenging work assignements, and actually received a reprimand from H.R. The sad thing is that these individuals are costing this origanization thousands of dollars every year when we already have financial issues, yet the managers take no initiative themselves to address these issues. Welcome to life in the sublic sector...

RE: People That Get It Done

TravisDBA — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:11:56 GMT

Someone once complained to my boss about my personaility, and my bosses very quick response to that person was " I didn't hire Travis to win a personality contest here, I hired him because he is my "go to" guy and he keeps my multi-million dollar databases running smooth all the time. Anything else you need to discuss today?" Enough said. There are people who watch and complain and people who get stuff done. Where I work we have what is called the 20/80 rule. That is, 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work, while 80% of the people are setting around shooting the breeze, surfing the Internet, starting trouble, and being concerned with what other people's personalities are. Believe me, management is wise to them. :-D

RE: People That Get It Done

Stephanie J Brown — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:37:44 GMT

Oh, and to answer Andy's question, YES, I'm a "get it done" employee, and my boss know it. At least, all indications are that several levels of management know that, because if it's on fire, it will likely land on my desk. And regardless of whether it's in my area or not, I'll figure out a way to either fix it, or get it in the hands of those who can fix it.Knowing who to pull into a team to resolve a cross-functional issue is a handy skill to have... ;-)

RE: People That Get It Done

Stephanie J Brown — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:30:24 GMT

Rob and Efrain both nailed it; "get it done" is a two-way street, not a stand-alone proposition. The phrase where I work is "make it happen". Unfortunately, unless it is some earth-shattering need, we don't get appropriate budget or training - definitely "osmosis" is the pattern of learning. (BTW dates are almost never appropriate.)Burning out? Yes. Why haven't I "moved on to greener pastures"? Because it didn't used to be this way at this company. We'd had some management changes that may have perpetrated the scenario; now management has changed again, and the new ones seem to understand resource management a whole lot better. If they're willing to work on the solution, so am I - as long as we're progressing in the proper direction (because I actually have realistic date expectations - change takes time).That being said, my company is on probation with me. I've notified them of my expectations for performance improvement, and been assured that steps will be taken. And I'm monitoring their actions and providing constructive feedback.If your company is causing frustration and burn-out, make sure you say something (if you're comfortable with the possible results of the conversation). It's not fair to blame the problem on someone else if you haven't told them there's a problem. One of my mantra's is "I can't fix it if I don't know it's broken". That's a two way street too.

RE: People That Get It Done

efrain.ramirez 96070 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:13:21 GMT

Rob nailed it. I see some excellent employees burn-out like this and they move on hoping to find "greener" pastures(and they will). When you have a "get'ir done" employee/manager, you need to be the force that not only guides them but also propels them. What you get in return is invaluable.

RE: People That Get It Done

rob.yoder — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:57:57 GMT

If we look at the article from the other perspective, from that of being a manager, what are you doing to encourage and support your employees to 'get it done'?Do you provide realistic timelines and goals or do you assign deadlines without an understanding of what it will actually take to accomplish the task?Do you provide the employee with the resources they need or do you make them ask for them?When the employee comes to you with obstacles, do you encourage them to provide you with possible solutions and discuss them together or do you tell them 'you figure it out, just get it done'?Are you willing to provide training and resources to expand the employee's skillsets to meet the needs of the task or do you expect them to learn it osmotically?Many times in our industry, the person who "get's it done" in an organization is the guy who gets no support from his manager and 'grinds it out', solves problems by sheer force of will and blind intuition without adequate training, realistic timelines and adequate resources. These employees don't last. They'll either burn out or they'll move on to an environment where their efforts are appreciated and supported.It's a great thing to have an employee who "get's it done" but make sure you're the type of manager that encourages and rewards that behavior, not just the one who gives it lip service.

RE: People That Get It Done

nelsonj-902869 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:13:24 GMT

My son, when working 4H for the local county fair, picked up this phrase ( with rural inflection) as"Git'er done!" from the Fair Maintenance Supervisor, who apparently said this all the time to the crew of teenaged maintenance('cleanup') staff my son was a member of. In this case the tasks involved little thinking, but constant roaming the Fair picking up trash and emptying trash cans and doing other odd jobs. Not the most glorious thing to be doing, but for a teenager, the pay was good and the work not too hard. He did so well at the tasks thrown at him (move picnic tables, help with stage setup,etc.) that to this day, five years later, every time I am at the Fair grounds someone asks how Spencer is. He got the job done when asked. Nothing difficult or hard or skilled, just summer work a teenager needs to experience life. I hope it serves him well later in life.

RE: People That Get It Done

swarnak245-1113250 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:10:13 GMT

Yes, I completely agree with this article. As a manager I always saw the people succeed who can take the ownership on their actions than who wait to be told irrespective of their smart factor levels. So commitment drives everything....One question every employee should always ask: how can I bring success to the team, to my supervisor and to my organization.

RE: People That Get It Done

efrain.ramirez 96070 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 06:35:19 GMT

The premise is that you work for a company or manager or supervisor that shares the same attitude. Unfortunately, i have seen many "get it done" employees/managers/etc leave their employment because their management preaches this but don't commit to it. So the employee is left out to figure things out on their "own" (creative) but because of lack of management support, they get behind and frustrated.

RE: People That Get It Done

mark.roworth 53736 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 02:43:11 GMT

Yes, I completely agree with the article. Two questions every employee should ask themselves:1. What's the most useful thing I can do next for my organisation (even if it means occassionally acting outside of my role)?2. How can I make sure that I continue to be dispensable? i.e. if I get hit by a big red bus, someone could take over from me reasonably seamlessly.

RE: People That Get It Done

call.copse — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 02:05:20 GMT

This puts me in mind of the classic [url=http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000073.html]Spolsky hiring[/url] diatribe on the theme of 'smart and gets things done'. To be honest in my experience the smart bit is not that important. I can live without that, but you definitely need the 'gets things done' every time.Well, I guess as far as smart goes you need operating a computer OK as a given. The taking ownership as you say is absolutely crucial.

RE: People That Get It Done

paul s-306273 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:20:15 GMT

Andy - do you really have a 'lawn guy'?

People That Get It Done

Andy Warren — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:42:37 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]People That Get It Done[/B]