InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comFri, 24 May 2013 19:52:12 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI haven't downloaded it but, even if I did (as they have allowed and for personal use only), I've got this little thing about ethics. Even though they've not explicitly put a copyright notice on the article, I respect the material as if it were implicitly copyrighted. All they ask is to register with the site to be able to do the downloads and I understand the business reasons why they do that.Registering with the site is much like registering on SQLServerCentral... I've received no spam that I can attribute to being registered on their site. My recommendation is to register with the site so you can download the article yourself.Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:06:49 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (6/27/2011)[/b][hr][quote][b]paul s-306273 (6/27/2011)[/b][hr]As for coding, if you can't make sense of something that's been posted reasonably quickly, I suggest you move on to something that you can comprehend.On the other hand, I've learned a whole lot of things by analyzing other people's code until I have an excellent understanding. High performance code isn't always easy to understand. For example, the absolute fastest method for resolving overlapping dates takes some reading and experimenting to fully understand. Once it's understood, though, it becomes "trusted" code and similar problems become child's play.Here's the link for the method I'm talking about.[url]http://www.solidq.com/sqj/Pages/2011-March-Issue/Packing-Intervals.aspx[/url]....[/quote]Jeff - do you have either another link to this Itzik Ben-Gan article that shows it in its entirety (without registering at the solidq site) or have it yourself? I'd like to read the whole thing.ThanksTue, 22 Nov 2011 10:23:24 GMTYSLGuruhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxBeing a noob, I have been leaning heavily on my trusted gurus at work, and from what I have picked up from SQLServerCentral. I tried the MS training, and videos, but the concern is that many of my questions are just too specific for general theory to cover. I am loving the Murach's SQL Server for developers that I got last year in school. He explains things mountains better than others, like Dietel. - ErikThu, 14 Jul 2011 07:28:39 GMTfjelltraininghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]eccentricDBA (7/8/2011)[/b][hr]Personally I use the following:SQL Server Customer Avisory Team (SQLCAT)http://sqlcat.com/The Professional Association For SQL Server (PASS) (24 Hours of Pass, SQL Rally, SQL Saturdays and Local SQL User Groups)http://www.sqlpass.org/SQL Server Centralsqlservercentral.comBusiness Inteligence Developer NetworkBIDN.comMVP BlogsPaul S RandalKimberly L. TrippGlen BerryBrent OzarBuck WoodyAllen WhiteKendra LittleJeremiah PeschkaThomas LaRockJohathan KehayiasMatt Hester(and others)Then I search to see if the information is consistant from multiple sources.[/quote]That's a good listFri, 08 Jul 2011 09:48:25 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxPersonally I use the following:SQL Server Customer Avisory Team (SQLCAT)http://sqlcat.com/The Professional Association For SQL Server (PASS) (24 Hours of Pass, SQL Rally, SQL Saturdays and Local SQL User Groups)http://www.sqlpass.org/SQL Server Centralsqlservercentral.comBusiness Inteligence Developer NetworkBIDN.comMVP BlogsPaul S RandalKimberly L. TrippGlen BerryBrent OzarBuck WoodyAllen WhiteKendra LittleJeremiah PeschkaThomas LaRockJohathan KehayiasMatt Hester(and others)Then I search to see if the information is consistant from multiple sources.Fri, 08 Jul 2011 08:22:59 GMTeccentricDBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]John Neville (7/8/2011)[/b][hr]Suppose the bosses are screaming and jobs are on the line (or your reputation as a miracle-worker is being questioned) - do you test less thoroughly if you get a suggestion from a more reliable source than from an un-trusted source? Would a quick once-over on Developer edition on your laptop provide enough comfort to convice you to deploy to a live production server *IF* the advice came from BoL or an MVP?[/quote]BOL has its flaws and so does MVP code. Not all MVP's are created equal.Let's turn the question around... are you willing to stake your reputation as a miracle-worker on code that you haven't tested or have only done cursory checks on? I'm not.A major key to success is to be able to quickly build enough of the right kind of test data to test just about everything in a very quick manner.As a side bar, if the bosses are screaming, then they're probably the ones that came up with an over-aggresive schedule and they need to be reigned in. They need to understand that it's THEIR jobs that are "on the line", as well.Fri, 08 Jul 2011 07:54:53 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI find the last part of the question the most interesting: "Do you ever take this advice at face value, or do you always test it to ensure that it works well in your environment?"Of course, in an ideal world, nobody would ever take anybody else's word for it and would *thoroughly* test all code/patterns/workaround etc before using them... but just suppose the sugar has already hit the fan and thorough testing is impractical - how much testing is 'enough' before deploying?And does the source of the advice make a difference to the amount of testing you deem necessary?Suppose the bosses are screaming and jobs are on the line (or your reputation as a miracle-worker is being questioned) - do you test less thoroughly if you get a suggestion from a more reliable source than from an un-trusted source? Would a quick once-over on Developer edition on your laptop provide enough comfort to convice you to deploy to a live production server *IF* the advice came from BoL or an MVP?And what if a heretofore reliable source suddenly gives a duff bit of advice (even monkeys fall out of trees)? Do you stick by them because of their historical reliability, or feel cheated and shun them in future?I'm genuinely curious what people think (and what they do in the real world ;-)My own $0.02 worth is that I tend to turn to Google when I hit an immediate problem, use blogs and forums to keep up to speed with what's going on in the rest of the world, and use books when i need to deep-dive into a topic. I'm in agreement with the posters above who say that past performance is generally the most important factor when deciding which blogs and books to choose: considering both the author and the publisher.Fri, 08 Jul 2011 04:28:40 GMTJohn Nevillehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI tend to evaluate sites over time. Some authors I learn to trust, others I use to provoke thought.In general I look for articles that give examples. In effect they document the experiment and the results therefore both are up for peer review.An article may give a good write-up of results but without the experiment you have no idea of the circumstances that gave the result.There are one or two MVP blogs that are really good but not all MVPs are created equally. Some MVPs seem to have gained their status through general competence but mainly wide ranging services to the M$ community. Others seem to have gained it through a more specialised focus. Both have their value, it just depends on what you want to achieve.I sometimes find value in less experienced DBAs asking questions. You can learn as much from a good question as you will from a good answer.Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:16:50 GMTDavid.Poolehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI believe each topic needs its own authorative source. There is no one size fits all when it comes to SQL practice and/or development. Everywhere you look you find good arguments for doing things one way or another...........the best source is the one that allows a DBA to find the best practices for performance, stability and usability given his own setup. To ignore those conditions specific to that DBA's own business/data environment is asking for headaches and do overs.Any DBA will attest to this: the best list for anyone in our world is more about what NOT to do than best practices ;). Start that list with......take a backup even when you dont think you need one.Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:02:20 GMTClaude V Lewishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (6/26/2011)[/b][hr]I pretty much use the same resources and in the order that you did when you wrote your book, Brad. For your final question, I NEVER take anything at face value for SQL Server. [/quote]I tend to take the same path. Finding the information and then testing it is the best way to find the best practice and best implementation for your environment.Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:57:58 GMTSQLRNNRhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxJeff Moden suggested I might be in the wrong job..... I know I am.Paul.SAP ABAP developer.(and that's on Oracle).Tue, 28 Jun 2011 02:29:24 GMTpaul s-306273http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]Jason Selburg (6/27/2011)[/b][hr]I just ask Jeff. :-D[/quote]:-P:blush:Thanks, Jason.Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:55:37 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxMHilsher, I love your parable.Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:30:18 GMTbradmcgehee@hotmail.comhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI just ask Jeff. :-DMon, 27 Jun 2011 13:21:55 GMTJason Selburghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI have yet to find any "one true solution" and there is no substitute for good judgement. Unfortunately good judgement comes from experience. And the experiences we learn the most from often come from bad judgement.I have a parable I'll pass on that I got from a mentor at my very first IT job getting out of college."Make three envelopes"A new DBA arrives in a new job and is asked to come up with a rush report to determine what is the cause of all the problems with the current system. The old staff not being available because they have "been helped to find other employment opportunities". Ready to pull his hair out in panic and frustration he opens his desk to find only three plain white envelopes with the instructions "Open me first", "Open me second" and "Open me third."He opens the first envelope and in simple block letters it says "Blame all the problems on the outgoing service team. This will buy you six months." He talks to his supervisor and does just that. The supervisor is happy, it having confirmed that he was indeed correct in firing the previous, obviously incompetent, staff.Six months goes by and, while things have improved, management still wants more performance. At his wit's end the DBA remembers the other two envelopes and he rushes back to his office and opens the second. Inside, "Recommend significant hardware improvements. This should buy you at least another year." He goes back to his supervisor with the news and the company does indeed proceed to throw more hardware at the problem over a period of a few budget cycles.Now performance has significantly improved but the demand comes out for still more performance as the database isn't keeping up with the increased demands. The more it does the more that is demanded of it. By now the DBA knows that he has a magic lamp with a genie who has saved him before and he rushes back to his office and rips open the third envelope. Inside it reads..."Make three envelopes."Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:17:37 GMTMHilsherhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[quote][b]paul s-306273 (6/27/2011)[/b][hr]As for coding, if you can't make sense of something that's been posted reasonably quickly, I suggest you move on to something that you can comprehend.[/quote]On the other hand, I've learned a whole lot of things by analyzing other people's code until I have an excellent understanding. High performance code isn't always easy to understand. For example, the absolute fastest method for resolving overlapping dates takes some reading and experimenting to fully understand. Once it's understood, though, it becomes "trusted" code and similar problems become child's play.Here's the link for the method I'm talking about.[url]http://www.solidq.com/sqj/Pages/2011-March-Issue/Packing-Intervals.aspx[/url]Don't shortcut yourself by skipping things you don't understand. Learn to understand them. It's a part of the job. If it's not, you might be in the wrong job. ;-)If you're not a member of that site, scroll all the way down for a link to become one. Like SQLServerCentral, they only want your email address and they don't sell or giveaway your email address unless you have the box checked that would allow them to do so.Mon, 27 Jun 2011 05:47:59 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspx[b]where do you go to find best practice advice?[/b]Peers , BOL , anywhere i can . Do I implement them ? not always , as you mentioned there is no one best practice that meets all needs.[b]What books, websites, blogs, and other sources do you trust the most, and why? [/b]BOL has never let me down till date, SSC of course Pinal Daves blog is good. Experts Exchange I only trust the solution I get from each of these after I have tried them. I like the above but don't trust them [b]Do you ever take this advice at face value, or do you always test it to ensure that it works well in your environment? [/b]I first try to understand the logic of any solution, I try them out as far as possible. However I am easy to please so i usually stop at the first solution that does well for my needs.Mon, 27 Jun 2011 03:21:06 GMTJayanth_Kuruphttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI guess with experience you just get used to trusting certain sites (like Brad's).As for coding, if you can't make sense of something that's been posted reasonably quickly, I suggest you move on to something that you can comprehend.Mon, 27 Jun 2011 02:32:49 GMTpaul s-306273http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxI pretty much use the same resources and in the order that you did when you wrote your book, Brad. For your final question, I NEVER take anything at face value for SQL Server. I always test for both the "happy path" and the "unhappy path". I trust no one in the outside world with my data or my servers and trust only a small group of people on the inside that I'm sure have the same beliefs and take the same care as I do.I'll also say that newbies have one tough time learning the right way to do things because of some very, very bad advice coming from "authoritative" and "well respected" individuals.For example, one of the supposedly best books of all time on SQL Server very plainly stated that you don't have to worry about estimating database sizes or how it will grow because, as of SQL Server 7, it would grow automatically. There was no mention of the 73 fragments (back then... it's worse now) that would be created at both the DB and OS levels for a DB to grow to just 1GB. There was no mention of how such fragmentation (especially for TempDB) could affect performance. Still, people will take such advice just because of who the author is.Another example is that I recently did some research on some hierarchical methods. The methods offered up on one blog were quite clever. Too clever in fact because the performance of the code was absolutely terrible. If the author did any performance testing, he sure did keep it a secret. The code didn't withstand even relatively small increases in scale. The really scary part is that the author is a well known "authority" and "highly respected" MVP and people will end up implementing his code just because of who he is.My advice to all newbies is to believe in nothing that you see, read, or hear. Try everything (it's why I include methods to create voluminous test tables in most of my articles). The only thing you can believe in is what you've actually done at least twice. As Sergiy says, "A Developer {or DBA} must not guess... a Developer MUST KNOW"! Make Books Online your friend (with the understanding that it can be a fickle friend) and understand that Google can be both your best friend and worst enemy. Buy a copy of SQL Server Developer's Edition, start at the beginning in Books Online, get involved with a forum like SQLServerCentral, and test everything. You'll soon become your own authority.Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:36:43 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxThere are some that would only accept Microsoft TechNet, Articles, White Papers. Some would venture to trusted sites and blogs. As for me, I look at what I consider my top 5 answers for a particular question, best practice and test it. In my opinion, anything you get from the internet you have to test to make sure that it fits and works in your environment. A good DBA is always compeled to evaluate what is the best for his/her environment.:-)Sun, 26 Jun 2011 07:52:31 GMTLorenzo DBAhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxFor books I use the Amazon ranking engine to help me to decide which is the "best" on the subject if I have decided to study something in real depth. The reviews are mostly well considered so one can usually be confident that something with ten 5*, a couple of 4* and a 1* is going to be a good book.For blogs I tend to follow what is happening in the online community as it quickly becomes apparent who knows what they are talking about. They are often the ones giving most to the community and will probably be speaking at PASS or SQLBits and generally putting themselves and their advice about. You all know who you are and thank you.Try following a few MVPs on Twitter and you will soon find an admirable network that you can turn toFor direct questions I like the StackExchange way of doing things as the whole concept of reputation along with insisting that questions are clearly presented and answered seems to ensure a higher grade of answers than other sites (remember the bad old days of News Groups and the incoherent question?).Sometimes things are such a no brainer that I just do them (will I ever write a better index maintenance plan than Michelle Ufford - unlikely) other times serious research is needed before proceeding, as usual, it depends...And finally there is always books on-line, and thinking long, hard and deep.Sun, 26 Jun 2011 06:16:50 GMTNigel Ainscoe-432538http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxBefore working with databases, I was an applications developer, so I have a solid understanding of general software engineering principles (particularly, the IEEE CS SWEBOK.) The general concepts apply across all software, whether it's desktop, web, mobile, or databases. This knowledge helps me determine if a “best practice” I find somewhere makes sense or if I should keep looking. It's also imperative to keep learning, to test new ideas before implementing them, and to readily change things that aren't working.It surprises me how many DBAs aren't familiar with even general SE concepts such as the software development life-cycle. I think all developers would benefit from spending some time working in a new area: DBAs to try app development, web developers to try desktop work, etc. But, I know that's wishful thinking for many people. I've been lucky in having the opportunity to do so.So in answer, I don't have a single oracle I consult. I prefer books over blogs because the tend to have more editors but that's not always reliable. Ultimately, I depend on my understanding of SE and my cross-training to help me triangulate good information from the cacophony of ideas and opinions available now. And, I always test something new. That's probably not even worth saying here, but you never know.Sat, 25 Jun 2011 19:00:14 GMTcraig.baker-1129427http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1131647-263-1.aspxComments posted to this topic are about the item [B]<A HREF="/articles/Editorial/74536/">Where Do You Go for Authoritative SQL Server Best Practices?</A>[/B]Sat, 25 Jun 2011 12:02:25 GMTbradmcgehee@hotmail.com