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RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Keith Langmead — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 05:45:51 GMT

Well I've certainly found myself in scenario one a number of times for various types of apps, not just db's. In that situation I think the best path is definitely to do everything you can to makes things better, after all that's your job, but at the same time make sure you are managing expectations with management and other staff. Make sure they understand that you can't promise results, and that you are seen to do what you can. If you succeed then hopefully you'll be acknowledged, if not then you tried, and they have it on record. Pointing out to management that it was a bad idea to not involve you in the purchase process is fine and hopefully worthwhile, but once you've made that point leave it alone. Don't whine on about it since 1) it's too late to do anything about it, and 2) you'll just come across in a negative light.For scenario two I think it's very much the same, do what you can (assuming you intend to stay), don't whine on about the problems, but do make it clear to management what the situation is. Work out early on if the extra workload will mean that existing deadlines might be missed, and if so make management aware, give them the options, and let them decide where you should concentrate your time on. IMHO the aim it to continue being a team player (and be seen as such) without becoming a doormat. Once management have advised which jobs should be put on hold / rescheduled / given lower priority, make sure if it's not already clear that the other stakeholders in those projects are aware, and know that the decision has been made from above so they also know what is happening and can if required adjust their plans accordingly. I think everyone knows that things don't always go to plan, and they can accept that, but finding out at the last minute, especially when the decision was made some time ago just annoys everyone, and you don't want to be the target of that annoyance if it wasn't your decision in the first place.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Gary Varga — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 09:01:44 GMT

[quote][b]Martin Bastable (10/25/2010)[/b][hr]Back to the scenarios - i've found myself in similar situations on many occasions.My tips are always to document everything, keep evidence trails (and these don't have to be secret hidden away ones, they can be in the public domain and known about), copy in relevant people, and if im being asked to fit 15 potatoes in a bag made for 5 (as is this week), again document the outstanding items being requested, then present them to relevant management and ask them to prioratise what they want doing first - let the management manage :) Help with ramifications of priorities, timescales, limitations etc. so they are aware of what they are asking for.Helps them too!m.[/quote]I was advised by someone with the title Senior Software Engineer to always keep a log book. It has often proved useful for productivity. Occasionally, to remind people what they promised when and for when. Twice contractually (once on behalf of a client against another supplied - a REALLY big one).

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Martin Bastable — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:23:57 GMT

Back to the scenarios - i've found myself in similar situations on many occasions.My tips are always to document everything, keep evidence trails (and these don't have to be secret hidden away ones, they can be in the public domain and known about), copy in relevant people, and if im being asked to fit 15 potatoes in a bag made for 5 (as is this week), again document the outstanding items being requested, then present them to relevant management and ask them to prioratise what they want doing first - let the management manage :) Help with ramifications of priorities, timescales, limitations etc. so they are aware of what they are asking for.Helps them too!m.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

ajwhite_13 — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:40:50 GMT

The first question to ask is whether or not you can weather the storm. When you cannot positively impact an organization because you have absolutely lost faith in management to turn the hard times around then it is time to go.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

GSquared — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:31:10 GMT

Sounds like a good plan.If you do have trouble getting paid, and trouble getting a valid reason for that, make sure you publish the name of the offending company somewhere, to warn other potential contractors of the problem. Better Business Bureau has good tools for publishing complaints about companies.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 04:14:00 GMT

[quote][b]Gary Varga (10/19/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Matt Miller (#4) (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.[/quote]I understand the gut reaction, because I've been in your shoes, but - don't compound the situation. The work product isn't yours, so even though it might feel personally gratifying, it's ultimately wrong (and illegal in some jurisdictions) to withhold it.The only thing worse than losing an account is to lose the acocunt AND lose your reputation in the process.Pursue the matter through the company who subcontracted to you. They ultimately have a responsibility to get you paid, and a financial incentive in getting you paid (since they no doubt take a cut as well), so they may have some leverage. That said - most companies won't negotiate with a threat over their head, so - do the right thing.Still - it's an awful scenario to be in. Sorry to hear.[/quote]I have no intention of destroying anything or stopping a website to work or even babling about the situation to their customers.My gut feeling as you say is that as long as I'm not paid, the modification to the source code since the last payment (7 weeks ago) are mine and my intellectual property. That property is transfered to them as soon as they post the payment. Now there's a little curve here as there's another player in between and they also own part of the code.I also feel this really is my only leverage point. I'm getting replaced next monday by a new hire and I have to hand over the keys to him so that leaves us with very little time to get this resolved.I'm also aware that my contractor is the one responsible to pay me regardless what happens with the next payment. However they sent almost 250 000$ my way in the last few years so I'm a little hard press to put a gun to their heads (I'm personnally owed ± 3 weeks assuming they didn't send the check last week which they never did).[/quote]I had this once with a direct contract. After a tip off that they were intentionally withholding payment so I asked the accounts department why my invoices were not being paid. The MD eventually turned up onsite and asked me to leave immediately. Of course, I complied but before I did the MD told me that he had no intention of paying me refusing to explain why.Unfortunately, I had to resort to professionals in the Legal profession in order to be paid. Whilst I did get paid, there were no winners but I did avoid losing out. I would never assist this ex-client again under any circumstances but I refrained from any unethical and unprofessional actions although I am certain I could have done some pretty malicious damage to the business.I remained professional - of course, I was tempted...[/quote]Thanks for all you guys help. I'll keep you posted when I have more news.My contractor seems to not even care about it (in a good way). He's been around for 30 years so it's not the first time he deals with this. I'll trust him and see where this goes.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Gary Varga — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 02:25:26 GMT

I think it is simple. Analyse the situation, report the situation upwards offering solutions and identifying issues and allow management to manage.Whenever management says JFDI (Just Do It - for those who didn't know), explain what the implications are and get them to acknowledge that. You need to explain what else will be pushed aside and what you expect of management e.g. get off your back and shield you from users (to some degree) so you can achieve this.Finally, it is a valid thing to supply in the detailed analysis how to avoid this in future e.g. Scenario 1: proper planning / impact analysis and Scenario 2: resource/task planning.Of course, I haven't seen it mentioned that perhaps there was enough slack in the workload for Scenario 2 to happen (rare but occasionally true).

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Gary Varga — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 02:09:36 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Matt Miller (#4) (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.[/quote]I understand the gut reaction, because I've been in your shoes, but - don't compound the situation. The work product isn't yours, so even though it might feel personally gratifying, it's ultimately wrong (and illegal in some jurisdictions) to withhold it.The only thing worse than losing an account is to lose the acocunt AND lose your reputation in the process.Pursue the matter through the company who subcontracted to you. They ultimately have a responsibility to get you paid, and a financial incentive in getting you paid (since they no doubt take a cut as well), so they may have some leverage. That said - most companies won't negotiate with a threat over their head, so - do the right thing.Still - it's an awful scenario to be in. Sorry to hear.[/quote]I have no intention of destroying anything or stopping a website to work or even babling about the situation to their customers.My gut feeling as you say is that as long as I'm not paid, the modification to the source code since the last payment (7 weeks ago) are mine and my intellectual property. That property is transfered to them as soon as they post the payment. Now there's a little curve here as there's another player in between and they also own part of the code.I also feel this really is my only leverage point. I'm getting replaced next monday by a new hire and I have to hand over the keys to him so that leaves us with very little time to get this resolved.I'm also aware that my contractor is the one responsible to pay me regardless what happens with the next payment. However they sent almost 250 000$ my way in the last few years so I'm a little hard press to put a gun to their heads (I'm personnally owed ± 3 weeks assuming they didn't send the check last week which they never did).[/quote]I had this once with a direct contract. After a tip off that they were intentionally withholding payment so I asked the accounts department why my invoices were not being paid. The MD eventually turned up onsite and asked me to leave immediately. Of course, I complied but before I did the MD told me that he had no intention of paying me refusing to explain why.Unfortunately, I had to resort to professionals in the Legal profession in order to be paid. Whilst I did get paid, there were no winners but I did avoid losing out. I would never assist this ex-client again under any circumstances but I refrained from any unethical and unprofessional actions although I am certain I could have done some pretty malicious damage to the business.I remained professional - of course, I was tempted...

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:15:35 GMT

[quote][b]Matt Miller (#4) (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.[/quote]I understand the gut reaction, because I've been in your shoes, but - don't compound the situation. The work product isn't yours, so even though it might feel personally gratifying, it's ultimately wrong (and illegal in some jurisdictions) to withhold it.The only thing worse than losing an account is to lose the acocunt AND lose your reputation in the process.Pursue the matter through the company who subcontracted to you. They ultimately have a responsibility to get you paid, and a financial incentive in getting you paid (since they no doubt take a cut as well), so they may have some leverage. That said - most companies won't negotiate with a threat over their head, so - do the right thing.Still - it's an awful scenario to be in. Sorry to hear.[/quote]I have no intention of destroying anything or stopping a website to work or even babling about the situation to their customers.My gut feeling as you say is that as long as I'm not paid, the modification to the source code since the last payment (7 weeks ago) are mine and my intellectual property. That property is transfered to them as soon as they post the payment. Now there's a little curve here as there's another player in between and they also own part of the code.I also feel this really is my only leverage point. I'm getting replaced next monday by a new hire and I have to hand over the keys to him so that leaves us with very little time to get this resolved.I'm also aware that my contractor is the one responsible to pay me regardless what happens with the next payment. However they sent almost 250 000$ my way in the last few years so I'm a little hard press to put a gun to their heads (I'm personnally owed ± 3 weeks assuming they didn't send the check last week which they never did).

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Matt Miller (#4) — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:32:30 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.[/quote]I understand the gut reaction, because I've been in your shoes, but - don't compound the situation. The work product isn't yours, so even though it might feel personally gratifying, it's ultimately wrong (and illegal in some jurisdictions) to withhold it.The only thing worse than losing an account is to lose the acocunt AND lose your reputation in the process.Pursue the matter through the company who subcontracted to you. They ultimately have a responsibility to get you paid, and a financial incentive in getting you paid (since they no doubt take a cut as well), so they may have some leverage. That said - most companies won't negotiate with a threat over their head, so - do the right thing.Still - it's an awful scenario to be in. Sorry to hear.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Evil Kraig F — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:48:41 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.[/quote]My first reaction would be to contact the contracting agency that put you on location and ask them if they wish you to release a lockdown for the work that's going to go un-paid to them by the client that they're still responsible for. Leave it in their lap, and force them to work with the assumption that they're required to pay you and you're doing them a favor. Be amazed at how often that works.As to rising to the occassion, it depends on what I'm rising to. The personalities and intentions of the players have just as much to do with the situation itself. Is the boss that can't get you that raise or server from the same boss you practically have to jump through hoops of fire to be allowed to use that comp time from the weekend server rebuild? Are you covering extra hours because your boss is golfing, or because he's trying to go through the pile of resumes that come in every day for the extra staff member you need?Some people need to have the house burn down around them before they'll start thinking fire alarms aren't just for testing, and some companies/managers have the same problem with personel. Sometimes you really do need to vote with your feet, even if you're just going to get stuck flipping burgers awhile. It's money to time ratio, but if the only thing you spend your money on is a house you occassionally sleep in and a refridgerator to rot food in because you're never home... what's the point?

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

abe238 — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:39:15 GMT

Sadly this is more and more common these days...I believe as my colleagues have said before, that we need to be professionals and one of most important characteristics is integrity. Just be honest, say: "this is as far as i can fix or I can do this task but that other will have to wait". if you are honest then it will be easier to keep going on; because in today's economy job hunting is no thrilling experience.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:42:43 GMT

And yes for all of you wondering, I'm available for work as of pretty much now.Resume : I know a little bit a SQL :w00t:.SQL 7, 2000, 2005, 2008Access, Office, ASP.net, scripting, automated jobs.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:36:32 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]GSquared (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]mike.hartman (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]There is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man's misery weighs heavily on him (Ecclesiates). Each of the options listed in the original post have their place and merits. A person trades their time for $ (if you're a consultant you can just laugh all the way to the bank).[/quote]Except when the client decides they won't pay you.... which my main one just did to me. Anybody got a piniata around that can ship over here?[/quote]Did you sign a contract for specific deliverables before you took the consulting job? If not, you're probably SOL. If so, you might take it to court.[/quote]Not quite as simple as that. I've been with them since late december 2009.I've logged and billed over 1800 hours since and they've paid well ever since except this time.We have no source control for the code here and everything is simply saved on the network so other than my log book where I input my mileage, I have very little proof of hours logged.We do have a shared todo list but we save directly as we didn't care much for the history of what happenned to each item.Now the only "good" news is that I'm subcontracting for a company which acts as an in between. Which means in theory that they are responsible to pay me, not the final client. That being said it's never a fun thing.I guess I was a fool to think that after all that time there was nothing to worry about anymore.[/quote]How would you guys react? I still have full access to all source codes and their backups. I have no intent to destroy there servers and yet no intent of letting 'em access to those files.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:35:30 GMT

[quote][b]GSquared (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]mike.hartman (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]There is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man's misery weighs heavily on him (Ecclesiates). Each of the options listed in the original post have their place and merits. A person trades their time for $ (if you're a consultant you can just laugh all the way to the bank).[/quote]Except when the client decides they won't pay you.... which my main one just did to me. Anybody got a piniata around that can ship over here?[/quote]Did you sign a contract for specific deliverables before you took the consulting job? If not, you're probably SOL. If so, you might take it to court.[/quote]Not quite as simple as that. I've been with them since late december 2009.I've logged and billed over 1800 hours since and they've paid well ever since except this time.We have no source control for the code here and everything is simply saved on the network so other than my log book where I input my mileage, I have very little proof of hours logged.We do have a shared todo list but we save directly as we didn't care much for the history of what happenned to each item.Now the only "good" news is that I'm subcontracting for a company which acts as an in between. Which means in theory that they are responsible to pay me, not the final client. That being said it's never a fun thing.I guess I was a fool to think that after all that time there was nothing to worry about anymore.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

GSquared — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:28:19 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]mike.hartman (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]There is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man's misery weighs heavily on him (Ecclesiates). Each of the options listed in the original post have their place and merits. A person trades their time for $ (if you're a consultant you can just laugh all the way to the bank).[/quote]Except when the client decides they won't pay you.... which my main one just did to me. Anybody got a piniata around that can ship over here?[/quote]Did you sign a contract for specific deliverables before you took the consulting job? If not, you're probably SOL. If so, you might take it to court.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:16:44 GMT

[quote][b]mike.hartman (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]There is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man's misery weighs heavily on him (Ecclesiates). Each of the options listed in the original post have their place and merits. A person trades their time for $ (if you're a consultant you can just laugh all the way to the bank).[/quote]Except when the client decides they won't pay you.... which my main one just did to me. Anybody got a piniata around that can ship over here?

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

mike.hartman — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:07:30 GMT

There is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man's misery weighs heavily on him (Ecclesiates). Each of the options listed in the original post have their place and merits. A person trades their time for $ (if you're a consultant you can just laugh all the way to the bank).

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

GSquared — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:04:53 GMT

[quote][b]Ninja's_RGR'us (10/18/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]GSquared (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]These scenarios don't sound like disasters to me. They sound like challenges that would be fun at best and interesting at worst.Games have a goal (or multiple goals), barriers, freedoms, a playing field, and players. Work is a game. If you aren't enjoying it, re-evaluate the game, and stop playing if you find you really don't like it. No reason to get overwhelmed by chess. If you feel like you're losing, study the rules and options and see if you can play better. If you really can't, then play a different game. Maybe water polo is more your thing than chess. Or maybe you need a new stadium or new city to play in/for. Same for work.The one time I was asked to do something unethical for a company, I resigned immediately and walked right on out the door. If you don't have your sense of personal honor, you have nothing, regardless of whether you have money or not.[/quote]What did they want you to do?[/quote]I don't remember. It was in 1987.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Ninja's_RGR'us — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:44:14 GMT

[quote][b]GSquared (10/18/2010)[/b][hr]These scenarios don't sound like disasters to me. They sound like challenges that would be fun at best and interesting at worst.Games have a goal (or multiple goals), barriers, freedoms, a playing field, and players. Work is a game. If you aren't enjoying it, re-evaluate the game, and stop playing if you find you really don't like it. No reason to get overwhelmed by chess. If you feel like you're losing, study the rules and options and see if you can play better. If you really can't, then play a different game. Maybe water polo is more your thing than chess. Or maybe you need a new stadium or new city to play in/for. Same for work.The one time I was asked to do something unethical for a company, I resigned immediately and walked right on out the door. If you don't have your sense of personal honor, you have nothing, regardless of whether you have money or not.[/quote]What did they want you to do?

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

GSquared — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:37:42 GMT

These scenarios don't sound like disasters to me. They sound like challenges that would be fun at best and interesting at worst.Games have a goal (or multiple goals), barriers, freedoms, a playing field, and players. Work is a game. If you aren't enjoying it, re-evaluate the game, and stop playing if you find you really don't like it. No reason to get overwhelmed by chess. If you feel like you're losing, study the rules and options and see if you can play better. If you really can't, then play a different game. Maybe water polo is more your thing than chess. Or maybe you need a new stadium or new city to play in/for. Same for work.The one time I was asked to do something unethical for a company, I resigned immediately and walked right on out the door. If you don't have your sense of personal honor, you have nothing, regardless of whether you have money or not.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:43:04 GMT

I tend to agree with Bill in that you rise to the occasion and look to improve things. Try to find the best in the situation and improve things.However, I don't like to be abused, and I have seen places that just look to abuse people. And people that put up with it, often because they are afraid of losing their jobs. I won't do anything unethical, and while I'll work the extra hours in the short term, a week or two, I won't do it permanently or for months. That's not worth it.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Bill Richards-377350 — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 07:49:03 GMT

[b]Scenario One[/b] – [b]What an opportunity to be a hero!!! [/b]Contact the vendor; tell them that their application is performing slowly. Ask them what can be done to improve performance. Also, tell them to email you the architecture and server specs. Once you have that information and have thoroughly analyzed it, call a meeting with your manager and possibly the business unit. In the meeting, review the problem they are experiencing and state the solution you have worked out with the vendor. They will think you are invaluable for fixing their problem and the vendor will be happy because they kept a client. This is a win-win situation!!!![b]Scenario Two[/b] – [b]What an opportunity to prove your value and do things your way!!! [/b]Review the job responsibilities of the other DBA that was laid off. See if there are unnecessary thing they were doing that can be eliminated. See if there are some things that can be automated. See if there are some things that can be merged with what you are currently doing. Setup a meeting with your manager and give him / her the good news of the improvements you have made. [u]So, they cut your budget and you’re not going to get a new server.[/u] [b]What an opportunity to prove your value by optimizing the server!!! [/b]See if there is a different disk configuration or you can more databases to different drives. See if your company has a SAN you can leverage off of. See if you can save space by deleting old files. See if there is a little money in the budget to add more memory or get more drive space. Demonstrate to your manager that new hardware would cost $$$ much, but you could really save the company money by investing only this $$ much. It could be that your manager has a budget this year, but it is just smaller than last year and they need ideas of how to improve things without spending a lot of money.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Slyfin — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 06:28:49 GMT

You forgot all except unethical and look for a new job.Keep it quiet until you can't hold it in.... start whining and complaining. Try to convince management the error of their ways. Consult others ..."Realize the problem isn't as big as it seems"...Accept it for what it is work on it/move on. If you don't have the time fix a 3rd party application you can at least spend a little bit of time looking at it to see if you can make some improvement. The fix might not be perfect but people will appreciate the effort. We'll never get everything we want. So you just have to do the best you can with what you have. Note: Consultants telling management that you can virtualize your enterprise SQL servers on the same hardware you're running 100s of utility boxes on doesn't help provisioning new hardware. :-D

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

ALZDBA — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 05:02:06 GMT

This situation is already reality for 2 years and counting ;-)other options are:- cope with it- wait for an occasion- accept you can only do as much as you can. (that is actually a benefit for yourself as for your company)

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

grahamc — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 04:20:34 GMT

[quote][b]Jeff Moden (10/17/2010)[/b][hr]The answer is the same answer as to anything else... "It Depends".[/quote]sadly it is...... at my previous place, I was on good terms with my management, so would happily laugh at them when they did not listen to me and had things go wrong.Current place I would not do it in the same manner. one of my other previous places had similar happen, I spoke to management who said nothing they can do, I have to live with it. My response was to resign... They were not interested in me, job satisfaction, quality of life, they just wanted to save money. So I happily walked.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Jeff Moden — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:44:01 GMT

The answer is the same answer as to anything else... "It Depends".

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Craig-315134 — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:27:29 GMT

As has been said many times, 'Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.'Not being born wise, I've hopefully learnt enough by experience to 'know the difference'.Scenario A would likely require some research why the application is performing poorly on SQL Server, followed by a discussion with the vendor to review the research and consider possible remedies. [i]At no time should the discussion take on an adversarial tone.[/i] The goal is to find mutually-acceptable solutions. Even if none is found, others will note the effort was made.Scenario B seems all too common in this era of fiscal constraints. Each individual's personal circumstances are different, and the additional demands placed by an employer on one's time and energies may be acceptable to one person, but not to another.My own philosophy is that an employer's demands must not cross certain 'red lines':* They must not adversely affect my health, both physical and emotional.* They must not adversely affect my ability to be an attentive, caring spouse and parent.* They must not present a long-term impediment to my career growth and goals.If any demands prove to cross these lines, it's time to find a new job. No-one should be asked to give of one's self to the point of surrender.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

mohdfarid — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 20:57:35 GMT

For me, as I always practiced and believed, we DBAs must stand firm in protecting the integrity of the data and a proper change management process must be practiced accordingly - no matter who the requester is and no matter how small or temporary the request might be. It is not just about the job or being employed. It is all about integrity. Same goes when you are asked to recommend certain product while you favors a different one. Would you stick with your choice or the one that is recommended to you?Well, back to the scenarios:A) The DBA, may need to work extra hours to identify the problem and tune the database performance as necessary. But, make sure the boss aware of this effort officially so that the DBA will (hopefully) be rewarded accordingly for the efforts.B) The DBA should make as many ppl aware of the man power issue to ease up the pressure. And, if he/she is up for it, take all the responsibilities up and do a good job at it, and ask for rewards (big bonus/promotion). If no reward is given what so ever, it shows that the company is lacking in staff recognition. Hence, if the workload pressure is too much and no one is taking care of the DBA, then IMHO he/she better seek for a new job. One thing that many employers failed to do is to recognize the the importance of DBAs. Most of the time, unfortunately, DBAs are viewed as staffs with less importance with small and redundant job scope since the company already have maintenance contract with the 3rd party vendors.I used to be treated as such but now not anymore. But one thing that is not changed is the pressure and the reponsibilities. No matter where I go, the pressure of being the DBA is mainly the same. But, I love my job and I accepted the risks that comes with my job. :)

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Chris Houghton — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:03:49 GMT

Wow,sounds like you guys have worked for some shifty employers! In 10 years of working in IT I've never even heard of anyone being involved in any kind of cloak and dagger stuff. If someone asked me to get involved in anything unethical, I'd ask for the request in writing and then ensure that the "proper authorities" were made aware. . . now where did I put that whistle????

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Learn_something_new_everyday — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 04:44:46 GMT

GPO, I agree with your comments 100%. I am no longer with that company not by choice but it worked out anyway. The good news on that is the pain in the *** manager got the boot with me. I would never do anything unethical or load the data deck to change the outcome of anything. Now if I were asked to make such a change I would get it in writing print it out and forward it to my personnel email account. Always CYA Now when it comes to CYA I TNO(trust no one) do not rely on files,email.... being saved on some network.I have had whole email threads disappear when you go to reference them. Email administrators may be asked to do something off the record too.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

GPO — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:53:03 GMT

[quote]is it better to be right or employed?[/quote]For the small day to day irritations, maybe it's better to be employed. Maybe. For the big issues it's better to be right - assuming being "right" means being true your standards and ethics and values. Before you decide it's better to be employed, ask yourself what's going to happen when your boss asks you (out the side of her mouth) to alter that query for the annual report ever so slightly so that a "small problem" gets put to one side for the time being? Try explaining to the judge that you were just following orders. If your boss is smart she won't put it in writing and you're on your own. Many years ago I was asked verbally to "optimise" data in order to take advantage of a particular government funding stream. Even as a pimply-faced callow youth I knew it stank so I said "I'm happy to do what ever you give me clear written instructions to do." Nothing more came of it. A few years later I read in the paper that staff at a similar organisation had been sacked for doing much the same thing that I had baulked at. The organisation had been caught with its hand in the government cookie jar and do you think it was management that carried the can? Of course not, it was the expendable plebs at the bottom of the food chain that got the boot because there was no paper trail and they did not question the verbal instructions they had been given.So what's a "big issue"? Well, anything that smacks remotely of fraud is a good starting point. Trouble is that so few people involved with data (whether entry, administration or reporting) know what fraud is. In my part of the world (can't speak for anything more widely than that) you don't have to receive a cash (or any other tangible) benefit to be guilty of committing fraud. Any sort of intangible benefit you might get for misrepresenting the actual state of affairs can be deemed to be fraud. For example you might be trying to impress your boss to set yourself up for a nice promotion down the track, if you produce data that makes your boss look good. You'll be seen as "compliant" and "cooperative" and "helpful". Once you buy into that sort of behaviour at any level though, you can easily become trapped. Just don't do it. Sure, by “being right” you might miss a few promotions and you may even be encouraged to leave if you get a reputation for being difficult, but if you're both diligent and principled you will be employable. Maybe you won't get the fancy new convertible or the bragging rights over your friends, or the beachside villa. At the end of the day, who cares?

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

mikeyu — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 20:06:26 GMT

a. be thankful that you still have a job. b. think like the manager and help him/her guide their decisions to suit you. They have to make hard choices too and if you are there to help make those hard choices right, then it benefits you as well. - Prioritize the hardware purchases needed or create alternatives - Discuss the pros/cons and risks associated with not replacing or doing the alternative - Document the activities that the other DBA is doing and ask to purchase tools that can alleviate the additional workload.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Learn_something_new_everyday — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 19:38:13 GMT

I was told many times in the past is it better to be right or employed?

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

phegedusich — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:07:54 GMT

A couple of things before we go on and on about professionalism.What is professionalism? Does professionalism mean that I sacrifice my life for the good of the corporation? Does it mean that I subsume myself to the larger mission, regardless of the consequences? Nope. Didn't think so.Here are three things my dad told me that I carry with me every day. They factor in every decision I make:1. There are only twenty-four hours in a day.2. You can't put ten pounds of potatoes in a five-pound bag.3. If the situation is killing you, get the hell out.Number 1 is immutable. Number 2 is your call as it applies to your situation. Number 3 is not negotiable.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

hotcute2002 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:00:17 GMT

Scenario 1: As per this scenario, the DBA should gets hands on the new third party application and try to find out why it is performing poorly on the Sql Server and see upto what level things can be fixed. Also let the management know the problem exist in the third party application if there is any and try to involve that third party for fixing the issues. Scenario 2: As per this scenario, there are two aspectsa. In tough time yes, person should show professionalism, but we should also remember that a company is not run by a single professional person (you), but it is run by all professional employees including the decision makers. If the decision makers try to become un-professional and if problems starts affecting your performance, work-life balance, they you need to sit and prioratize the important things ahead in your life and take course of action accordingly.b. related to purchase of hardware, I think DBA responsibility is to inform the management about the current situation and tell him upto what limit he can go ahead and manage the things/performance and when the break down will happen. If management is dumb to understand the situation and ready to put entire operation/company into jeopardy it is better to leave company.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

funes79 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:57:30 GMT

I agree with the previous reply to be a professional, but definitely cannot agree with that fact, that you has to just accept the non fair under belt kick from your surroubding, what can be your company, manager etc. I think the most important thing in this kind of situation is to identify what is important for you in life- what are your prioritees. Because maybe the fired DBA and the cutted headcount is the opportunity to show your qualiities. But maybe the unfairness pushes you to decide no to waste your time with those people and simply move on. Definitely if you have a clear vision about your goals and you are aware of your values, you know what to do.

RE: When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

Joe Keller-416617 — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:17 GMT

As frustrating as such scenarios can be on a personal level it is important to remember that we are professionals and that we should conduct ourselves in a professional manner no matter what the situation is. Given whatever situation we should never take it personally and always give the best, most honest advice we can give based on the actual circumstances. With that being said I also know there are lots of politics played especially during tough times, so it is also important to point out all the reasons why an organization is in any given situation and how things could have been different, but always from the perspective of looking forward to find ways not to repeat the same mistakes again.

When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?

bradmcgehee@hotmail.com — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:08:47 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]When Times are Tough, Do You Rise to the Occasion?[/B]