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RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

berokke1 — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:05:03 GMT

Nice article Jessica! I always try to make the best first impression. However, it is not in my control how the other person perceives me or my actions. I've learned this over my 24 year career. It doesn't matter how much I work and prove my knowledge, there are still differences on how men and women are treated. I'm always optimistic the people are making decisions based on skills and knowledge however I know that is not true. These days it is not as easy to change jobs so you either accept it, work hard to change it or look for another job where your skills and knowledge will be valued and recongized.BTW - WIT Luncheon topic last year at SQL Pass was Energizing the Next Generation. This year it is Recruiting, Retaining & Advancing Women in Technology: Why does it matter?. Every one is welcome! I encourage men to attend and see what it is all about! :cool:

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Kelsey Thornton — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 08:49:06 GMT

[quote][b]david_wendelken (10/8/2010)[/b][hr]I was working in The Netherlands one year when the US was in the World Cup for Soccer. We were all in the hotel bar and the tv was blaring away about one of the games. I made a comment basically saying that soccer wasn't all that bad. I was suddenly "one of the club"! I kid you not, these guys went out and bought me a team hat, paint markers for my face, etc. I was now "one of the guys". I still find it totally bizarre to this day.[/quote]Yes - here in the Netherlands, for some reason the guys seem to be even more fanatical about football (soccer) than in the UK.I was surprised that was possible!

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

david_wendelken — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 08:34:20 GMT

[quote][b]ron.carlton 41182 (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]In my career I have seen women treated fairly. I have worked for a few, I have worked with many. The real issue that I have noticed is when a person doesn't fit the stereotype for their gender. The male who doesn't pay attention to professional sports, doesn't even know when football season is, can find himself alienated from his co-workers. The woman who follows boxing will similarly find herself in a unique situation with co-workers.I have seen this simple deviation from the stereotype more detrimental in the workplace than one's gender.[/quote]That is so true.Professional sports bores me to tears. I continue to be amazed at the number of men who appear to derive their sense of self-worth and manhood from the ability of eleven strangers to carry a piece of dead pig across a field better than a different group of eleven strangers.Why anyone would have ever thought the ability to do that would make someone a better manager is beyond me. I was working in The Netherlands one year when the US was in the World Cup for Soccer. We were all in the hotel bar and the tv was blaring away about one of the games. I made a comment basically saying that soccer wasn't all that bad. I was suddenly "one of the club"! I kid you not, these guys went out and bought me a team hat, paint markers for my face, etc. I was now "one of the guys". I still find it totally bizarre to this day.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

TravisDBA — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 07:04:33 GMT

[quote][b]equerystrian (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]We all have to mentor others and I do enjoy that, but please don't assume that because I wear a skirt, I want an office with a door and staff reporting to me. [/quote]I don't think anyone here is assuming that.:-D

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Nicole Bowman — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 16:02:22 GMT

[quote][b]equerystrian (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]We all have to mentor others and I do enjoy that, but please don't assume that because I wear a skirt, I want an office with a door and staff reporting to me. I'd like to keep my hands "dirty" in the infrastructure and apps, thanks very much. ;)[/quote]Me too!

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

ron.carlton 41182 — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 12:17:45 GMT

In my career I have seen women treated fairly. I have worked for a few, I have worked with many. The real issue that I have noticed is when a person doesn't fit the stereotype for their gender. The male who doesn't pay attention to professional sports, doesn't even know when football season is, can find himself alienated from his co-workers. The woman who follows boxing will similarly find herself in a unique situation with co-workers.I have seen this simple deviation from the stereotype more detrimental in the workplace than one's gender.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

equerystrian — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 11:11:45 GMT

As a woman in technology, I've been fortunate to work in generally enlightened workplaces. What I've struggled against is the perceived career path for women in IT, which is to promptly get away from the technical to move towards more "soft skills" type roles like project management, BA work, or staff management. Stay in a technical role long enough and you will be looked at askance. I know there are technical men who also are uninterested in the management path and resist the general pressure to climb the ladder, but the subtle pressure to become a PM, BA, or supervisor seems to be a little stronger towards women. I happen to LIKE the guts and moving parts of the technical side, and I know I wouldn't succeed as a manager. We all have to mentor others and I do enjoy that, but please don't assume that because I wear a skirt, I want an office with a door and staff reporting to me. I'd like to keep my hands "dirty" in the infrastructure and apps, thanks very much. ;)

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

TravisDBA — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:51:48 GMT

[quote][b]Steve Jones - SSC Editor (10/7/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (10/7/2010)[/b][hr][quote]The world of today is miles beyond where it was in 1910[/quote]Sometimes, when I stop and look at the state of everything today, I'm not always so sure that is a good thing..... :-D[/quote]I certainly understand that. I'm not sure everything is better. Seems to me an overall work ethic is lacking that used to be more appreciated in our young people.[/quote]True story! Back in our day you had to "pay your dues first", and we accepted that. But kids today want $80-90K all in their first year out of college nowadays, and what's even worse they don't listen either. To really learn and do well in this business you have to listen... :-D

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:45:05 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (10/7/2010)[/b][hr][quote]The world of today is miles beyond where it was in 1910[/quote]Sometimes, when I stop and look at the state of everything today, I'm not always so sure that is a good thing..... :-D[/quote]I certainly understand that. I'm not sure everything is better. Seems to me an overall work ethic is lacking that used to be more appreciated in our young people.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:44:06 GMT

[quote][b]amenjonathan (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]...Does it really matter that they're all women? Should we get peeved that there are no males on that staff?[/quote]If it matters to you, yes. You should encourage more males to go teach if you find that important, and it's a cause that you support. You don't have to support every cause, but you also don't have to dismiss those that others find important.Both my little ones have had male teachers (K and 3rd) and I though they were excellent. My oldest is in college and considering teaching, which I think is wonderful. I encourage him to pursue it because we need more good teachers.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

OCTom — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:25:43 GMT

[quote][b]amenjonathan (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second (play some devil's advocet). Recently I attended my son's open house (or back to school, whichever comes first). Every one of the 25 or so staffers and teachers introduced to us was female. Not a single male teacher or administrative staffer. ?Does it really matter that they're all women? Should we get peeved that there are no males on that staff?[/quote]This hold trues for the nursing profession. How many people think that it's odd to have a male nurse? There are more female doctors today but the nursing profession is about 99.9% female. Is that good or bad?

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

TravisDBA — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:46:31 GMT

[quote]The world of today is miles beyond where it was in 1910[/quote]Sometimes, when I stop and look at the state of everything today, I'm not always so sure that is a good thing..... :-D

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

LadyRuna — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:29:47 GMT

[quote][b]amenjonathan (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second (play some devil's advocet). Recently I attended my son's open house (or back to school, whichever comes first). Every one of the 25 or so staffers and teachers introduced to us was female. Not a single male teacher or administrative staffer. ?Does it really matter that they're all women? Should we get peeved that there are no males on that staff?[/quote] That's one thing I've noticed: almost all teachers in grades K-6 were female, then for junior high and high school, there were more male teachers. I think that it would be good to have a closer to 50-50 mix in schools because boys need good role models as much as girls do. Also, with the increasing number of single-parent households, many boys are growing up never having any kind of male role model.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

j_e_o — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:54:08 GMT

Sometimes I think that I was dropped off on this planet by an alien spacecraft.Never have I judged a person in the work place on their gender, race, religion or physical characteristics. What I judge them on is how well they participate in the overall project effort and their bottom line contribution.My basic premise is that I have to work with Jane, Ming, Mohammed and everyone else on the team on a daily basis. My behavior can either improve the work environment or degrade it. If I degrade it, my job gets harder. If I improve it by treating everyone fairly, my job gets easier. Heck, even if someone has some objectionable quality, I just decide that it is something I can ignore or I find ways to work around it. There are exceptions however: bullying, sexual harassment and persistent pessimism. These qualities will have me speaking with my manager or HR in short order.My first engineering job saw me paired up with a female engineer. She was a socially challenged person who had many quirks (a real nerd's nerd). But it didn't matter. I strove to establish an honest, friendly and supportive work relationship with her and whenever she did something awkward, I just blew it off because it didn't really matter. She was intelligent and got the job done and we worked very well together (probably because I wasn't an intimidating ***).Bottom line is we have to give our coworkers a break and judge them based on their efforts and work product, not their fashion sense, marital status or whether they like to talk about their favorite sport team at every opportunity.By the way, I'm one of those gym "meatheads"...:-D

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

amenjonathan — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:51:51 GMT

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second (play some devil's advocet). Recently I attended my son's open house (or back to school, whichever comes first). Every one of the 25 or so staffers and teachers introduced to us was female. Not a single male teacher or administrative staffer. ?Does it really matter that they're all women? Should we get peeved that there are no males on that staff?

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:45:38 GMT

[quote][b]Dizzy Desi (10/7/2010)[/b][hr][quote][b]TravisDBA (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]I disagree Jessica, the world just doesn't work that way. Ideally, it should, but it just doesn't, and as long as human nature is in the equation in the workplace, it never will. As Tobar stated people have their own perceptions that aren't always in line with reality, and that tends to color their viewpoints, and that isn't something you can legislate at the workplace. :-D[/quote]Jessica's editorial was very well thought out and well written. I think she would agree with you that the world doesn't work that way. However, where you seem to be saying that human nature can't evolve, Jessica's take was that it [i]can[/i] evolve and improve if we strive to act professionally. Our professional and respectful behavior should be focused upon everyone we encounter, whether in the workplace or not.[/quote]Absolutely we can evolve. And we do so by learning more, talking about it, and understanding that those prejudices are just that: prejudices. They don't necessarily apply.The world of today is miles beyond where it was in 1910, and we have gotten better about being more professional to others. We can go further, and I hope I live to see more professional equality.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Dizzy Desi — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:23:10 GMT

[quote][b]TravisDBA (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]I disagree Jessica, the world just doesn't work that way. Ideally, it should, but it just doesn't, and as long as human nature is in the equation in the workplace, it never will. As Tobar stated people have their own perceptions that aren't always in line with reality, and that tends to color their viewpoints, and that isn't something you can legislate at the workplace. :-D[/quote]Jessica's editorial was very well thought out and well written. I think she would agree with you that the world doesn't work that way. However, where you seem to be saying that human nature can't evolve, Jessica's take was that it [i]can[/i] evolve and improve if we strive to act professionally. Our professional and respectful behavior should be focused upon everyone we encounter, whether in the workplace or not.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

sjimmo — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:08:05 GMT

Thanks Jessica, very good article.I remember that when I was interviewed for a position at a very large company, the one question that stands out in my mind was "Do you have a problem working for a woman?" My response was absolutely not. I had just retired from the military and my last commander had been a woman. I did question why we had such a question in that day and age (20 years ago) and was told I would find out. Well, at the first senior management meeting, I found that out of 23 senior managers of that division, only 2 were male. We were proud to be the tokens, and found ALL to be professional, knowledgeable and it was a great group to be with.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Steve Jones - SSC Editor — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:51:01 GMT

Thanks, Jessica, for a well written editorial.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Carol Wickenheiser — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:35:04 GMT

Thank you, Jessica, for your well thought out editorial. I am fortunate that in my workplace and work community I am treated very fairly. Women have many leadership positions in our local and regional GIS (Geographic Information Systems) organizations. GIS was in the past a male dominated career but in the past 11 years that I have been involved in it more and more women are joining the ranks, and as a compliment to my male colleagues we are equally respected. Hopefully this trend will continue and will branch out into other technology fields.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

TravisDBA — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:18:55 GMT

I disagree Jessica, the world just doesn't work that way. Ideally, it should, but it just doesn't, and as long as human nature is in the equation in the workplace, it never will. As Tobar stated people have their own perceptions that aren't always in line with reality, and that tends to color their viewpoints, and that isn't something you can legislate at the workplace. :-D

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Tobar — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:08:58 GMT

Nice Article.The only thing I would add is that I would say we should not even rely on "Lasting impresions". We should always be listening and reacting in the "present" not filtering with the "past". It is something we all do but need to strive not to do. How many of us have worked for employer's whose lasting impression is that you do not know something and even when you have learned it and demonstrated proficiency they still do not recognize you as a contributor? You either give up and get back into "your place", possibly confirming your own lasting impression of yourself, or you find a new employer were you can "start fresh".

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Kelsey Thornton — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 04:50:34 GMT

[quote][b]kdv (10/7/2010)[/b][hr]While no one is disputing the importance of the minutes of the meeting, I think the point that Jessica was making is that the facilitator should not assume that the woman in the meeting should take on the note-taking role.[/quote]I wholeheartedly agree here. No-one should assume anything. I was not suggesting that the writer was incorrect in what she said, only in the implication that the note-taker was involved to a lesser extent than the others in the meeting.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

kdv — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 04:34:34 GMT

While no one is disputing the importance of the minutes of the meeting, I think the point that Jessica was making is that the facilitator should not assume that the woman in the meeting should take on the note-taking role. Thanks for a well thought out commentary on women in technology roles. After being in the industry for many years, I'm still amazed at the small percentage of women in the field. Attending Microsoft's Tech Ed a few years ago was eye opening because only about 10% of the attendees were women. However women need to take on some of the responsibility for growth in this area also. I've attended sessions on Women in Technology where the primary focus is Work/Life balance and family issues. I completely understand that these are critical areas and will continue to be as long as women still maintain the primary responsibilities for home and raising children as evidenced by many recent studies. However in these types of forums, wouldn't our time be better spent by trying to enhance careers, tackling some of the perception issues addressed in this forum, finding ways to encourage young women to enter this field? If we continue to focus on the family issues in professional forums, we only confirm the perception that women are not as interested in careers as men.

RE: Gender Differences in the Workplace

Kelsey Thornton — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:37:55 GMT

On the whole I liked the article and agree with it.One thing I might beg to differ on is the following statement:[quote]Managers can help this by not [...] asking the female in the room to take notes, which would devalue her role in the discussion.[/quote]Whoever is taking the notes (be it male or female) might feel less "involved" in the discussion as it is happening, but often the note-taker will be asked to write a report or minutes of the meeting. If they are clever, and they feel so inclined, they can bend the report towards their own viewpoint without changing any material facts. This report will often be the most obvious lasting outcome of the meeting.

Gender Differences in the Workplace

Jessica M. Moss — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:06:01 GMT

Comments posted to this topic are about the item [B]Gender Differences in the Workplace[/B]