InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comSat, 18 May 2013 13:17:35 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]churlbut (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Seems like this article is like old news, not only do I see this mentioned quite often in forums when I have time to check questions, but now its yet again a featured article. I believe this is kinda common sense, no wonder I don't spend much time on this site...[/quote]BWAAAA-HAAA!!!! If you read the headline, it clearly states "(first published: 2007/11/27)" so as of right now, it's 5 years and 5 months old which means that you've actually made a gross understatement about it being "old news". ;-) I absolutely agree with your statement that is should be common sense, yet, people still don't get it right. Apparently, common sense isn't so common.I don't see what SQLServerCentral.com's decision to republish this article for the benefit of those that don't know how to post a question correctly has to do with the amount of time you've spent here but, since you brought it up, which site do you spend your time at and what's your handle there? I'd love to see where you spend your time.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:49:09 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]churlbut (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Seems like this article is like old news, not only do I see this mentioned quite often in forums when I have time to check questions, but now its yet again a featured article. I believe this is kinda common sense, no wonder I don't spend much time on this site...[/quote]Would you rather we pull answers out of our **** instead? Many times we are asked questions with so little to work with yet people get offended when we ask for clarification. Sorry if we, the volunteers willing to try to help, can't answer every question based solely on poorly asked questions.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:49:44 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Sean Lange (3/27/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]churlbut (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Seems like this article is like old news, not only do I see this mentioned quite often in forums when I have time to check questions, but now its yet again a featured article. I believe this is kinda common sense, no wonder I don't spend much time on this site...[/quote]Perhaps if you actually spent time around the forums you would see that most people don't bother to post enough information to get their questions answered. It gets mentioned time and time again because people don't post this type of stuff.[/quote]Honestly someone could put together a Pass Summit presentation "How to ask questions on a forum." and it would get a fair amount of attendance. Unfortunately the people that attended would be the ones who already ask useful questions.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:17:07 GMTKenneth.Fisherhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]churlbut (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Seems like this article is like old news, not only do I see this mentioned quite often in forums when I have time to check questions, but now its yet again a featured article. I believe this is kinda common sense, no wonder I don't spend much time on this site...[/quote]Perhaps if you actually spent time around the forums you would see that most people don't bother to post enough information to get their questions answered. It gets mentioned time and time again because people don't post this type of stuff.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:08:09 GMTSean Langehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxSeems like this article is like old news, not only do I see this mentioned quite often in forums when I have time to check questions, but now its yet again a featured article. I believe this is kinda common sense, no wonder I don't spend much time on this site...Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:03:38 GMTchurlbuthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxI guess my take on such a thing as SQLFiddle is if we can't even get someone to cut and paste a CREATE TABLE statement, what makes us think they'll use the likes of SQLFiddle? Yeap... WE could use it to help us create an answer but, frequently, a question is so poorly worded that without a CREATE TABLE statement from the OP, it's sometimes impossible to figure out what the question actually is.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:11:47 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Kenneth.Fisher (3/27/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Sean Lange (3/27/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Lowell (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]OK i now see that SQLFiddle is for MySQL, not SQL Server;i guess it is some kind of front end tester, where you can build a temporary schema in the left panel, and test queries on the right.not useful to me, but maybe to others. [/quote]Lowell I did find a language dropdown in the upper left. Once doing that it parsed sql correctly. But I still don't understand what the point is.[/quote]I recently started answering some questions on stackoverflow and from what I've seen there it's fairly handy. It allows someone to set up a structure, with data, and some test code. That way you can ask your question and direct people over to sqlfiddle to see the code/example.[/quote]Like I said it seems like it might be pretty cool but it is for some reason not intuitive to me how to use it and I don't see a tutorial or anything anywhere. These kinds of utilities are often pretty awesome once you understand how to use it but trying to figure it out on your own is sometime more effort than it is worth.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:54:31 GMTSean Langehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Sean Lange (3/27/2013)[/b][hr][quote][b]Lowell (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]OK i now see that SQLFiddle is for MySQL, not SQL Server;i guess it is some kind of front end tester, where you can build a temporary schema in the left panel, and test queries on the right.not useful to me, but maybe to others. [/quote]Lowell I did find a language dropdown in the upper left. Once doing that it parsed sql correctly. But I still don't understand what the point is.[/quote]I recently started answering some questions on stackoverflow and from what I've seen there it's fairly handy. It allows someone to set up a structure, with data, and some test code. That way you can ask your question and direct people over to sqlfiddle to see the code/example.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:43:00 GMTKenneth.Fisherhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Lowell (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]OK i now see that SQLFiddle is for MySQL, not SQL Server;i guess it is some kind of front end tester, where you can build a temporary schema in the left panel, and test queries on the right.not useful to me, but maybe to others. [/quote]Lowell I did find a language dropdown in the upper left. Once doing that it parsed sql correctly. But I still don't understand what the point is.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:23:59 GMTSean Langehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxOK i now see that SQLFiddle is for MySQL, not SQL Server;i guess it is some kind of front end tester, where you can build a temporary schema in the left panel, and test queries on the right.not useful to me, but maybe to others. Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:18:30 GMTLowellhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxAbsolutely, and thanks for not reacting to my style issues.You are right - it's a case of degree and a one line joined query is way harder to read than an indented piece of code.:-)Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:14:52 GMTGuy Thiebauthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]nick.mcdermaid (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Are you kidding me? someone posts into a discussion on forum etiquette asking a new question and breaking most of the rules of forum etiquette in the process!Anyway.... I'm suprised sqlfiddle isn't used more to assist in setting up a test bed - it's all over Stackoverflow.com. I guess people like to have the source in the question, not in another site.http://sqlfiddle.com/My forum posting has got to the point where I will post a very general answer just to work out whether the original poster is even giong to get back to the question, before I fully engage in answering.[/quote]I have never heard of sqlfiddle until now. Does it come with a users manual? I tried creating a table and then running some sql. All it does is no work for me. I assume I am not using the tool the way the author intended but if I can't figure it out I assume there is something missing in the intuitive portion. It looks clean but I can't figure out how to use it or what it is for.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:11:53 GMTSean Langehttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Guy Thiebaut (3/27/2013)[/b][hr]Nice article.Only comment I would add is that I find your indentation makes the code difficult to read for me.So with this:[code="other"] FROM #MyTable v, (--==== Derived table "fs" finds ID of the first row -- where stanation of VALUE occurs SELECT MIN(ID) AS FirstIDOfStagnation FROM #MyTable v,...[/code][b]I find the following easier to read[/b][code="other"]SELECT v.*FROM #MyTable v, (--==== Derived table "fs" finds ID of the first row -- where stanation of VALUE occurs SELECT MIN(ID) AS FirstIDOfStagnation FROM #MyTable v,...[/code][/quote]To each their own. I have a similar problem with code that's left justified with no separation between key words and the objects of those words. Other than my particular taste for readability, the reason I use such a vertically aligned format is so that I can easily select vertical segments of code using the "Alt" key.As I've said many times, the quickest way to start a fight with someone is to tell them how to format their code for readabilty. ;-) The only reason why I even brought it up in the article is because the formatting of some questions is so poor that you spend more time trying to reformat it to be able to read it than you do actually solving the problem. Some reasonable form of indentation is always better than, say, 585 characters on one line like I've run into many times in the past.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:59:57 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxNice article.Only comment I would add is that I find your indentation makes the code difficult to read for me.So with this:[code="other"] FROM #MyTable v, (--==== Derived table "fs" finds ID of the first row -- where stanation of VALUE occurs SELECT MIN(ID) AS FirstIDOfStagnation FROM #MyTable v,...[/code][b]I find the following easier to read[/b][code="other"]SELECT v.*FROM #MyTable v, (--==== Derived table "fs" finds ID of the first row -- where stanation of VALUE occurs SELECT MIN(ID) AS FirstIDOfStagnation FROM #MyTable v,...[/code]Wed, 27 Mar 2013 03:22:23 GMTGuy Thiebauthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxAre you kidding me? someone posts into a discussion on forum etiquette asking a new question and breaking most of the rules of forum etiquette in the process!Anyway.... I'm suprised sqlfiddle isn't used more to assist in setting up a test bed - it's all over Stackoverflow.com. I guess people like to have the source in the question, not in another site.http://sqlfiddle.com/My forum posting has got to the point where I will post a very general answer just to work out whether the original poster is even giong to get back to the question, before I fully engage in answering.Wed, 27 Mar 2013 00:16:50 GMTnick.mcdermaidhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxPlease post your problem in a new thread. ThanksMon, 24 Dec 2012 05:33:03 GMTGilaMonsterhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxi have a table under below- tblEmp(eid int primary key identity(1001,1),ename varchar(100),Eaddress varchar(100),estate varchar(100),loc varchar(100),doj date,dob date,edesc varchar(200))now when i insert thisinsert into tblEmp values('Rakesh Kaushik','Nalagarh','abc','2001-01-11','12001-01-11',1,1,1) i got error Operand type clash: int is incompatible with datepls help meMon, 24 Dec 2012 03:52:26 GMTme_kaushik79http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxThey say a compliment is a good thing. Two by the same person on the same subject is a sure thing. Thanks, Olga. :-)Fri, 09 Sep 2011 20:43:49 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxNever mind advice on forum posting, excellent though it is. I bookmarked this article as "Export table contents into flat file." Next thing I'll do is write a query to generate the QUOTENAME query for a given table. :-DP.S.: Oh wait, I have bookmarked it before. :blush:Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:29:27 GMTOlga Bhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxLynn,Thanks for that post. It made me realize how I can improve some of my own queries. The light came on.This is a fantastic thread.Fri, 27 May 2011 11:10:58 GMTgitmohttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]nicholas.bazin (4/7/2010)[/b][hr]Hey, I'm quite new to the forum and I greatly appreciate this article. Much thanks for posting it.[/quote]You bet. Thanks for stopping by and thanks for the feedback.Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:49:15 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxHey, I'm quite new to the forum and I greatly appreciate this article. Much thanks for posting it.Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:10:32 GMTNick B.http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxGreat article, perhaps valid though for those who rely heavily on posts for answers to their issues..personally i dont post issues and of late, answers either. The reason mainly is that it takes an awful lot of time posting all the details of a problem, try putting in a support call with Microsoft for example and see how many details they ask for. Granted most people dont post right, on the other hand most people don't know how much of detail is enough. Sometimes you may miss a vital detail such as a version #. Answers are given for free and *assume* stuff all the time, somebody taking time to answer itself is doing you a favor and he/she does nto have to consider all involved before doing it. In short there are lots of limitations to this mechanism of getting information and while I think it is admirable to keep it up I also think you should take everything you read with a sack of salt before implementing especially on production.Tue, 02 Mar 2010 07:19:39 GMTdma-669038http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxIt does apply to '05, and it's not really a manual process, if you write your SQL as Jeff suggests, e.g. ...[code]SELECT 'SELECT ' + QUOTENAME(ID,'''')+',' + QUOTENAME(DateValue,'''')+',' + QUOTENAME(Value,'''')+',' + QUOTENAME(YearValue,'''')+',' + QUOTENAME(MonthValue,'''') + ' UNION ALL' FROM yourtable[/code]... then you get your output already. The manual part would be writing that script, and adding in the DDL for your table structure etc, but the end user only has to Execute, not reformat, your data to see exactly what your issues are. I'm lazy, so I created a script that I can just copy/paste my SELECT into, update my column names, and let the system tables do the work of generating both the DDL and the data (attached)Thu, 28 May 2009 13:17:56 GMTjcrawf02http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxI am trying to understand how to post data and table definitons.I did read the article. Just having a bit of a problem understanding it.I know how to export data out of SQL 2005 and generate table definitions.Does this article apply to SQL 2005? Are these instructions a manual process? Or do I use my exported data and defintions?I take it it is not as simple as using the upload process when am creating a post?I must be a slow learner? Just doesn't seem clear to me.Apreciate any assistance. I started a T-SQL question and wanted to clean it up.DaveThu, 28 May 2009 12:34:45 GMTservices-943946http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxThank you, Anirban. You're always gracious and kind with your words. They republish this article about every two months or so to try and help folks with their posted questions so they can get better help quicker. Many of use keep a reference to this article in our signatures to make it easy to point out for people who come up a little short on a posted question.Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:05:28 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxI didn't got time to enter the forum in last few days, so I read this late. It was excellent explanation. First I thought it was something related about this forum. But as usual I glued to your article from start to finnish. No words to praise your writing...Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:09:02 GMTAnipaulhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]kbatta (2/9/2009)[/b][hr]One problem I run into with these articles is only one inch of the code is visible at a time. Is there a way I can get more of the code to show without having to copy it and throw it into notepad?Thanks!Kay[/quote]I don't know what the heck they've done to the forum recently, but I sent an email to the WebMaster alerting him to the problem.In the meantime, the copy/paste to notepad or word is gonna have to do. Sorry about that.Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:01:01 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxOne problem I run into with these articles is only one inch of the code is visible at a time. Is there a way I can get more of the code to show without having to copy it and throw it into notepad?Thanks!KayMon, 09 Feb 2009 22:30:16 GMTkbattahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Olga B (2/9/2009)[/b][hr]I suspect it's because thinking through the problem is not the norm. ;)[/quote]BWAA-HAA!!! That's the perfect answer! Thanks for the feedback, Olga! :DMon, 09 Feb 2009 12:10:27 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Lynn Pettis (2/9/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]Olga B (2/9/2009)[/b][hr]Great article. The best thing about the suggested approach is that if the poster takes the time to define the problem and consider the test data and the desired output, chances are the solution will present itself.If it doesn't, I may have to post my question after all. :D[/quote]There actually has been a few documented cases of just that happening, but that isn't the norm.[/quote]I suspect it's because thinking through the problem is not the norm. ;)When answering support questions my policy is to wait about 20 minutes for all non-work-stopping requests. It's amazing how many times I get a "Never mind, I figured it out" message 18 minutes later.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:03:20 GMTOlga Bhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]Olga B (2/9/2009)[/b][hr]Great article. The best thing about the suggested approach is that if the poster takes the time to define the problem and consider the test data and the desired output, chances are the solution will present itself.If it doesn't, I may have to post my question after all. :D[/quote]There actually has been a few documented cases of just that happening, but that isn't the norm.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:36:00 GMTLynn Pettishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxGreat article. The best thing about the suggested approach is that if the poster takes the time to define the problem and consider the test data and the desired output, chances are the solution will present itself.If it doesn't, I may have to post my question after all. :DAnd, incidentally, thank you for the trick with QUOTENAME! I live, I learn.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:24:40 GMTOlga Bhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxThanks, Osskey... I appreciate the feedback.This doesn't apply just to forums when it comes to readability and self or embedded documentation. I started a consulting job about 7 months ago and even the people who've been hear longer than me can figure out what's going on in some of the code. When it comes to embedded comments, the code is a virtual desert. When it comes to readability, whenever you need to work on a piece of that legacy code, you actually have to reformat it to read it. Absolutely no standards were invoked never mind followed. It's really a mess.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:43:20 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxGreat post! I'm so tired of looking at code that makes my eyes bleed. Jeff is spot on with the view that if you don't care about your code, no one else will; besides, it takes so little effort to make your code readable. This advice is equally applicable across all languages and environments.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:48:47 GMTosskeyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspx[quote][b]webrunner (2/9/2009)[/b][hr]Thanks, Jeff,This is good advice for any type of forum post for help. But especially useful for SQL.- webrunner[/quote]Thanks, WebRunner... I appreciate the feedback.Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:37:41 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxThanks, Jeff,This is good advice for any type of forum post for help. But especially useful for SQL.- webrunnerMon, 09 Feb 2009 09:09:36 GMTwebrunnerhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxwell, then its time for me to make better use of my week ends:):cool:Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:01:55 GMTeramyahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxThanks, eramya... but with about 13,000 posts total, I'm thinking it may take more than a week. :PThu, 01 Jan 2009 12:34:28 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic426135-203-1.aspxyou took a lot of pain to explain things... i might take a week to go thr' all your posts...Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:09:09 GMTeramya