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RE: From DBA to DBAA

todd.kleinhans-716255 — Fri, 09 May 2008 07:52:43 GMT

Good article- I like the technical emphasis as being key. This reminds me of a title I once had at a job- Enterprise Data Architect. The things I did was exactly the same as your article. The biggest challenges to being the senior dba and leading other dba(s) wasn't technical- it was executive sponsorship, insight and lack thereof. My team and I could design killer systems with quantifiable ROI however the people who sign checks generally did not understand what they were signing. It was a constant struggle- we know about capabilities but they only worry about costs. And somewhere in between it really is about the actual business and the processes used to support revenue generation and cutting costs.An overall data strategy is key. Remember hearing about stovepipes within the intelligence community, and stovepipes within stovepipes? Same thing in the business world. Constant battles, politics- all people-related issues. Honestly, with the hardware and software to house data out now, it really comes down to people- they are the weakest link and the greatest assets too. I for one, would welcome a clean slate in a commodity business. Design a company with instrumentation in mind from the very beginning. Meaning, create systems with reporting and business intelligence from the start.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Anipaul — Fri, 09 May 2008 00:31:42 GMT

The idea is good but is DBAA started existing now? I never came accross. Did anyone heard about it?

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Anuchit-288322 — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:29:00 GMT

Thanks for good article and discussion.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Wayne West — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:46:00 GMT

You have my sympathy, Loner. I work in city government, so I know we don't have executives with salaries like that! Unfortunately all too many companies are like that. Once upon a time, the CEO of Toyota (IIRC) was limited to earning no more than X amount of what the lowest paid worker made. That provided a pretty good incentive to improve the overall health of the company, including the salaries of all workers.Today, there's a reason why HR deals in Human Resources. At a lot of companies we're just cogs in the machine, and the only thing that matters are executive salaries and dividends to the shareholders. Someone once said that "capitalism is not a form of government", unfortunately it seems that rampant capitalism has become so.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Loner — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:36:00 GMT

My CEO gets the big bucks, they just announced his salary is 16 million. I just get more and more work and the company has to cut budget for no reason. We are earning money, but probably not up to the market expectation. So we cannot get any help and get more and more work. The morale is low. Everyone works over 9 hours each day.

These days the company does not appreciate employees anymore. They think you should be happy that you have a job.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Wayne West — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:47:00 GMT

And that's why we get paid the big bucks! (in a parallel universe very much like our own)

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Loner — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:42:00 GMT

Thanks Chris. In my company, I am the developer, DBA (manage both development and production jobs, security, create database, create user sign on even apply patches.), also I do database modeling, index tuning....

The fun goes on and on ...

RE: From DBA to DBAA

ChrisMoix-87856 — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:37:00 GMT

These titles (SQL Server Developer, DBA) are so generic that a blanket statement like that doesn't really help. Just start looking for a job and see what activities and responsibilities show up under a help wanted add for a DBA.

In some companies, SQL Server Developers are just developers who can query a database. In some companies, DBAs just make sure that the backups ran last night, etc.

Sometimes, SQL Server Developer is a title for someone who knows SQL Server inside and out and optimizes, tunes, etc. In some companies, DBAs do both t-sql development and administration, and much more.

My title is DBA, but I do some coding, some database administration (server jobs, manage security, add users, etc.), and a lot of performance tuning and research.

Like I said above, the titles and responsibilities just vary too much from company to company to use a blanket title to define what a person is capable of.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Loner — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:04:00 GMT

Eugene - can you give a reason why ?

RE: From DBA to DBAA

EugeneZ-162636 — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:43:00 GMT

< SQL Sever developer can move into a database architect position easier than a DBA.>

It is not true

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Loner — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:00:00 GMT

From what I understand, database architect job is totally different from a DBA. In my old company the database architect worked with the DBA, and in most cases from my point of view, a SQL Sever developer can move into a database architect position easier than a DBA.Since a database developer has to keep up with the business and keep contact with users, not liked the DBA, in my old company, the DBA mostly worked with the server engineers instead of the business users. Definitely if the database architect has DBA skills would be ideal, but most important the database architect needs to understand the business requirements and company direction.my 2 cents.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

jeffrey yao — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:55:00 GMT

Thanks a lot to everyone who makes a comment here, your comments are great!

I'd like to shed some lights on why I coined this DBAA term here. My personal background is a DBA with a MBA degree (Wayne, we have some same thoughts reading your email)

My ex-employer is a company that needs to be heavily audited due to its organization nature (non-profit). However, to meet these rigious auditing requirments, we spent tons of time in doing anything that can satisfy those auditors. This practice leads me to continuously think of one thing, how can we meet the auditing requirments without compromisng our database administration quality if we have to put so much time to auditing? How come there is no technical auditing regarding database administration quality such as db admin process, db admin efficiency, db admin cost, etc, etc? But these topices are no doubt beyond my daily responsiblity as a dba, who simply takes care of the health of my db environment plus doing all those mandatory checklist work required by the auditors. Finally, this leads me to believe these "big" topics should be the call of somebody who has expert knowledge of db administration while on the other hand, need to spend time in thinking these strategic questions. Database administration is a young career field compared with software development. We see lots of software engineering books, but I never see a book dedicated to database administration, but I believe with time going as db administration becomes more mature and plays more important role in our real life, we will see this type of books coming out in near future.

I noticed MS has a new certification for data architect, but this is different from my proposed DBAA role (no doubt there is some overlap). To me a data architect is more of data model build, data layer design and data process. But DBAA thinks more of administration in terms of efficiency, ROI and the framework of achieving the administration goal. In some sense, it has lots of common aspects as business administration but in more technical way and in much smaller scope.

Anyway, if my article can trigger some useful disscussions and lead to some fruitful thoughts to our DBA community, I'd say I have achieved my original intention already

Thanks again for all our great comments which also help me to think from other perspectives.

Kind regards,

Jeffrey

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Wayne West — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:46:00 GMT

There are some reasons to look for the next step in your career, regardless of whether or not it is with the same organization. The first is blocking. If there are people with less seniority below you, you staying in one place may be denying them promotion. Second, some companies have fixed-step pay scales, and once you hit the top, you might only be getting cost of living increases from that point forward.I fully agree that not everyone should dutifully stomp up the corporate ladder. A lot of us like "being in the trenches" and not having our week filled with meetings. We just want to work and keep things running smoothly.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Wayne West — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:41:00 GMT

I tend to agree, Tim. Perhaps it's a matter of scale. In a large organization with a large DBA staff, perhaps a highly skilled DBA with an MBA who understands the business flows, that person could be valuable as a DBAA. That person would also be a prime candidate for Senior/Lead DBA. But in smaller organizations, I think it is frequently going to be incumbent upon the DBA or the senior application developer to learn those flows.A lot depends on separation of duties. I am THE DBA for a city. Sounds lofty until you drill down to the city having less than 1200 employees, the IT department having maybe 60 employees, and I'm the only DBA. I'm also not an application developer, there are people who have been here for 10+ years who understand how the City work processes flow. I mainly need to know if the database needs to be 24/7 or banker's hours and whether or not it has any external input/output (DTS). Aside from that, I manage the server and coordinate with the network guys for backups.If I were the senior DBAA for a State, it would be a different story. I don't think it would be possible for one person to know the business functions and flows of all areas, it's just too diversified. For such an organization you'd probably want a DBAA in each division of government, but knowing how government is funded, I don't think that you could afford it.Scale. That's what's important. Which reminds me, I need to clean my bathtub.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Ken Shapley — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:41:00 GMT

Interesting role "DBAA". I've been in the IT profession for years and titles like Adminstrator, Engineer, Architect, Developer at any given time seem to overlap or merge or split depending on where your at and who's in charge and who respects who. I don't think there is an idea role that you can put it all in a single can, but this was an interesting article none the least.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:40:00 GMT

I quite agreed with your point here as long as one is happy that is the main very important point to consider. Why should I move up if am happy with what am doing? Someone who might consider such moves might be someone who lacks some DBA skills and out of hours support or calls is too much for them therefore they might consider going up. There is nothing wrong with that is their choice but I will always like to be a DBA regardless of going up because is in my blood and my make-up’s.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

VadimK — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:28:00 GMT

I might be in minority here, but why does everyone have to do the next (2nd, 3rd, 12th, etc.) in his career? I've been asked the same question about my next career step during interviews and always answered I'm perfectly happy of being a DBA now and don't want to go higher in the corporate ladder. If that is not an expected answer from HR prospective - I couldn't care less. There are enough of challenges and day-to-day problems for DBA to solve to keep your mind sharp and your job satisfying and interesting. And if you feel stuck, move on to another job.I also agree with previous posters that DBAA functions are better suited for a system architect. Some business folks and even IT managers having difficulties understanding what a DBA is and why they need DBA's, let alone DBAA.my $0.02

RE: From DBA to DBAA

ChrisMoix-87856 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:23:00 GMT

Is anyone familiar with a company that has 'DBAA' as an official job title?

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:16:00 GMT

Tim,

What you need to remember here is that regardless of how you look at it every organisation has different ways for doing business. From where I am coming from I have always being the bridged between the business and the technical team, the business need someone who knows and understand the business with really good communication skills to relate the business needs into technical realities, also to enable the development team to produce good coding to reduce maintenance cost in the long run. Perhaps you are coming from a company that is the way your CIO/CISO likes to do their stuff there is no right or wrong approach here as long as the business as well as the organisation as a whole meet its objectives then is cool. If the business keeping on losing money then the shareholders as well as the board will have someone’s head on their plates, the first will be either the CISO or the CIO, and then comes the CEO. Title changes comes about as our day-to-day business and the technological needs changes all we have to do is embraces it and make a room for it within our establishment and see how it will shape the business as well as the organisation in question as a whole. Whichever you look at it, someone somewhere will surely incorporate such title I bet you 1-month tops. Our modern day of business has changed everything is now depending on DATA which the business relies on for decision and operation purposes and the database also being the backbone of the company that gives the DBA/DBAA more opportunities to be creative such as the value of the data, distributing and storing. I personal consider database management not as a normal job rather I look at it as an ART work which enables me to demonstrate my imagination and creativity to support the business as a whole. This is my position and how I honestly welcomes Jeffrey article, to some of you it might sound unnecessary and waste of money as said, but most HR will buy it and incorporate it within their environments either we like it or not is going to come on board. All the best.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Antares686 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:27:00 GMT

Sorry although it is a good article you the description is too grey and too broad to be effective. A DBAA should be more of the same person as a System Architect just for the database side. In fact these people exist and have many titles sometimes broken into smaller units.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Tim McCain — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:14:00 GMT

This just seems like HR talk and dropping coined terms in an attempt to give something life that doesn't or needn't exist. Everything described should be intrinsic to the DB development team. The CIO or CISO would meet with them, define business need and process and they would develop it, maybe even with a project manager's oversight.

Seems to me this is the emperor’s clothes and is an unnecessary position. DBAs should have an understanding of business flow and data management needs and offer solutions that will provide the best ROI for the business; that is why businesses hire them. Adding another "A" to a title doesn't change this, but it is a nice way to try to get more money out of clients.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Krishna Mohan Thamisetty — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:13:00 GMT

I found this article useful, who worked as a SQL Developer and DBA can met the DBAA position. I'm similar type of DBAA Person.

Thanks for the posting good article.

Krishna Mohan

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:06:00 GMT

Sorry old chap I might have misunderstood your intentions and hope am forgiven? You are deadly right this is what I like about our profession we agree when we have to and disagree when we have to disagree, thanks for your understanding. All the best.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

ChrisMoix-87856 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:51:00 GMT

I'm confused. Database Administration Architect? What about the same person on the database developement side? DBDA? Business Intelligence? BIA?

Not trying to be a smart-alec, but i would think Database Architect - designs solutions. Database team leader/supervisor/manager - leads the database professsionals.

Great ideas in the article, though.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

EugeneZ-162636 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:23:00 GMT

Carl Walden,

Database architect is not lead of DBAs by default: you can be good in product but be bad leader

Database architect is person who know product very good (see link to Microsoft Certified Architect Program and find what Architect need to know )

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/architect/default.mspx)

There is nothing in my post about lack technical skills required for leader

I said:

To be leader you do not need to be database architect - it is about leadership skills first then knowledge of your product\business\industry\etc.

All the description of database architect in the article: can be found in regular job description for senior DBA position \ DBAs lead :

Define the administration scope in terms of targets and risks / costs Build up an optimized processes model which can maximize the ROI for the current resources Pioneer in evaluating / choosing the right mix of technology Explore / create innovative methodology to adapt to business environment. Act as a facilitator / advisor for the stakeholders to best use the data system / asset. -------

In real life - it is all about your company business culture (mostly $$$).

Yes, you can tell your boss - lets try something new...

Sure, but in middle of your conversation you will get call from end-user about all system is slow -that bring you back to the Earth...

---

Eugene

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:38:00 GMT

Eugene,

I honestly and totally disagree with your suggestion/opinion rather I agreed with Zubeyir. How can you lead a team if you do not have the necessary as well as the technical skills required? As I said before I have seen and heard all that before but I am not here to tell who is right or who is wrong but just to confirm what Jeffrey had written. At the moment any technology that will be deploy within the company I have to give the go ahead after couple of months testing, I always have to give the advantages and disadvantages towards any new project such as ROI, cost, and IT risk analysis. Why such huge responsibilities on my head simply because I knew the business logic and I do also understands the flows of information within the business and its boundaries. My recent project was MOSS 2007 for content management, global enterprise search for both extranet and intranet as well as for managing sensitive Online document management and access. Now if I do not have the technical skills how could one spearhead such project? Therefore, the technical skills come first then the rest follows up, and after all this the most important skills you will need is COMMUNICATION. Because communication skills supper-seed all the skills you might have without communication skills one is just like a ship without a radar. Always stay blessed.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

EugeneZ-162636 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:54:00 GMT

BTW:

Microsoft Certified Architect Program

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/architect/default.mspx

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Zubeyir — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:48:00 GMT

But it is not about being a leader, it about being somebody to decide the future architecture of a system. The leader then will lead the team to build that future.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

EugeneZ-162636 — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:36:00 GMT

Hi,

Nice try, but..

Your big confusion it is definition database architect as lead of database administrator(s):

DBA architect it is about knowledge (design\manage\etc.) of sql server (in this case) and experience.

To be leader you do not need to be database architect - it is about leadership skills first then knowledge of your product\business\industry\etc.

Eugene

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:35:00 GMT

Please forgive me with my grammer errors was just in a rush to attend SLA meetings.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Carl Walden — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:32:00 GMT

I have been a DBA for almost 15 years and someone in our US office told me some months back that they should consider to make me DBAA and I did not understand that until I Jeffrey article what a wonderful thought? Please hook up with the MS folks to come up with something towards certifications keep the good work. Having said that with my current role, I have been doing 99% of all that Jeffrey had just said therefore you have my backing please keep us in the loop with any further or future developments with MS towards the certifications. I must also confirm that I am one of those guy's who do not believe in certification, but all the keep up with the good work and always stay blessed.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Zubeyir — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:26:00 GMT

Great article!

After spending a lot of years being a DBA then the next best thing must be a DBAA position. But I've never seen a text explaining it this clear! Excellent.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

KLewis — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:02:00 GMT

Too funny Dave! But I do agree with Jeffrey that this is a logical path for some database professionals to take the next (or 12th) step. If you've ever been on a job interview where you are asked "Do you prefer being a Production DBA, Development DBA, Data Architect or ETL Developer?" and you answer "All of the above", you would probably be an excellent candidate for DBAA.

RE: From DBA to DBAA

Dave Kitabjian — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:31:00 GMT

When I saw "DBAA" I thought it was a reference to a support group for recovering DBA's...

From DBA to DBAA

jeffrey yao — Mon, 07 May 2007 18:13:00 GMT

Comments posted here are about the content posted at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/jyao/2989.asp