InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comThu, 23 May 2013 16:31:39 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]vinuraj (11/13/2007)[/b][hr]so You Mean to tell that certification is all waste.....[/quote]It depends. As the old saying goes, "You get out of it what you put into it."If you're just looking that piece of paper that says "I am certified," then the certification may get you in for the interview and may even get you the job... until they figure out you don't know what you should know. Then you'll be looking fo a job real quick. Enough of those short stays on a resume and people won't consider you any longer.On the other hand, if you use certification to help you gain more knowledge, then that will come through, both in the technical interview and on the job. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:28:26 GMTK. Brian Kelleyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxand we've not even mentioned the vast range of or lack of skills that a person who calls themself DBA has ( or hasn't ) This is probably the most difficult aspect as different roles may call for different skills and I don't find that salaries/rates usually differentiate between required skill sets and as an interviewer I find DBA's often have a very overinflated opinion of their skill set which really demeans the skilled or traditional DBA - but sometimes it's horses for courses.Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:42:06 GMTcolin.Leversuch-Robertshttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxI disagree. Certification helped me get my current job. Of course, my college degree had nothing to do with computers. Neither did my paid work experience, so I needed something to say I had been working (successfully) with SQL on my resume. Certification, plus all the studying I did for it (SOHO at home for 2 years) helped me get my first IT job. And the first IT job gave me enough paid experience on SQL Server that I was able to get my first DBA job soon after.Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:52:06 GMTBrandie Tarvinhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxso You Mean to tell that certification is all waste.....Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:15:54 GMTvinurajrhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxHi Nisha,I have around 7 yrs of exp as a DBA earlier I was developer for 2 years then I read some books about basic administration then Advance concepts. The main thing you can go for any platform for database like MS SQL, Oracle, Sybase,DB2 etc but you should know the SQL part of the related platform for administration coz' some companies are not using GUI interface for administration and as per my experience in interviews people use to ask sql part more.Regards,AustinMon, 12 Nov 2007 20:55:52 GMTAustin_123http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]vinuraj (11/12/2007)[/b][hr]Its Quite Interesting to Answer this well you seeyou are not interested to do certificationyou have very good experiencebut doing certified You surely still learn more and will get more experience.so you Gain Experience Through your work and Gain experience through certification.[/quote]This is a good approach to certification. You are looking at certification as a means to gain more experience. Unfortunately, some people just want the certification and they don't get the experience because they're doing just enough to pass the test.Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:05:46 GMTK. Brian Kelleyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxIts Quite Interesting to Answer this well you seeyou are not interested to do certificationyou have very good experiencebut doing certified You surely still learn more and will get more experience.so you Gain Experience Through your work and Gain experience through certification.Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:19:04 GMTvinurajrhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]swjohnson (11/8/2007)[/b][hr]I don't believe much in certifications but prefer the school of experience and the only way to do that is to be like Nike--just do it! I was fortunate enough to have test boxes that I could break and try and fix. So I would install SQL and then make backups and then blow away the master DB and see if I could restore the system. Wasn't always successful and didn't always do it right the first time, but when it was important I was able to shine and make serious bonus points with management![/quote]I believe in certifications to a point. If you're looking for a job, they can get you in the door because they pass an HR screen of resumes. For self improvement, it depends on how you use them. If you're certifying just to pass the test and get the piece of paper, they are basically worthless. If, however, you treat certifications as a measure level of competence you hope to achieve and then ensure you know the key areas well as outlined by the certification goals, that's a different story. Unfortunately, in the industry we've all seen too much of the former, which is why I think we've become so jaded towards certification.Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:21:31 GMTK. Brian Kelleyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxDay by Day is a learning day for a DBAFri, 09 Nov 2007 03:01:27 GMTvinurajrhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxWell welcome to the crazy world of the DBA or as we say at my place Welcome to 7734. Anyhow, I like Rudy's rule do no harm and make sure you can recover from or undo it and as my grandfather always said, be ready to put on your overalls and shovel lots of cr@p! Basically don't be afraid to work hard and learn. As for me I started with small things and made sure the were rock solid...like backups and transaction logs were always successful...the log shipping was always completed. Security was another fundamental that I made sure to completely understand. The go after Performance Tuning. Take any free moment and read something about SQL. There are so many good books and white papers that can be read in a short setting. I read so many of the SQL books my wife laughed at me. During her pregnancy, she read books on babies and I read on SQL. I don't know much about birthing no babies but I sure know my way around SQL. I don't believe much in certifications but prefer the school of experience and the only way to do that is to be like Nike--just do it! I was fortunate enough to have test boxes that I could break and try and fix. So I would install SQL and then make backups and then blow away the master DB and see if I could restore the system. Wasn't always successful and didn't always do it right the first time, but when it was important I was able to shine and make serious bonus points with management! So good luck and hang tough!Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:34:28 GMTswjohnsonhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxHere's my story - hopefully it helps:I had several years of experience working as a technical consultant for a company selling a CRM/SFA database program. That was my introduction to databases.From there, I did a lot of experimenting with Access, and got some small contracts to develop small dbs.From there, I wanted to make the jump to SQL Server.So, I decided to study for the Microsoft Certified Technical Specialist: SQL Server 2005 exam. I studied my rear-end off for about 5 months, and passed on the first shot. That certification definitely helped to get me some interviews, but my confidence really came from the fact that I've got several "workshop" databases that I am constantly work and experiment with, on my own time, that I started during my study phase.So, while I was looking for jobs, I was keeping my knowledge active. In interviews, when employers would ask me questions, and have me take their own SQL tests, I felt confident and did well, because I had experience with SQL Server 2005, without having "professional work experience".From that point, you just need to get lucky and find an employer who's not looking for a candidate with 5-7 years of experience. That took me a couple of months of searching, but am happy to report that I've found a great job now.Best of luck with your search.Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:43:37 GMTSimon E Doubthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxIf you enjoy it, love it and breath it, then sky's the limit!Good luck!Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:07:18 GMTPhillip Coxhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxjust to clear something up... i'm not saying it's a bad life. only that the frustrationscan bring you to that point.i suppose i'm done with the rant.Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:00:48 GMTneotokyohttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxunfortunately; by the time you feel like you are getting a successful or near proficientgrasp on the current sql envrironment or material... it will be time for the next release,and you start all over again.this is what makes some of the IT industry frustrating, and by that point after spending allthat time in the trenches getting to know this stuff; you are about ready to do something else. the caveat is that your so vested in databases that it's easier to drudge through it againmeanwhile griping all the way on how you would like to do something else. possibly not in IT.catch 22Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:58:57 GMTneotokyohttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxYou never said what your job title is or what the job description is, so your comment about "proving yourself as a good DBA" is a little vague. Post some details about the job you have and we can give you more specific advice, but if you're trying to prove yourself a good DBA and you don't even have access to do proper DBA work, it's going to be a long, uphill battle.Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:17:05 GMTBrandie Tarvinhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxhow can be a lawyer be Perfect?Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:00:31 GMTvinurajrhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxHmmm... Nobody here suggested getting certified. I will leave that for another debate, but if you ask DBAs how they became one, they will respond that they fell into the job. Most came from being a system admin or a developer. How many people go to school or take classes to be a DBA? Very few... How many people take classes to become a developer or admin? Lots....Are there other DBAs there? What is your attitude? Are you the type of person who will help out even if it infringes on personal time or other things important to you? Have you developed a network of DBAs (perhaps at the local SQL Server User Group)? Can you demonstrate that you know your limits? Can you demonstrate that you know the resources to go to for tough questions?Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:09:03 GMTRick Heigeshttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx... and one more take ... not only do companies 'love' well qualified DBAs ... well qualified DBAs 'love' companies that hire them to fix what unqualified DBAs have done ! :PFri, 26 Oct 2007 11:50:05 GMTrudy - Doctor "X"http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]K. Brian Kelley (10/26/2007)[/b]True, but once a person has legitimate skills and can document experience on a resume, there's a lot of love out there for competent SQL Server DBAs...[/quote]Absolutely - Just be aware of your worth (once you ACQUIRE it that is...).Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:41:24 GMTMatt Miller (#4)http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]Matt Miller (10/26/2007)[/b][hr]In other words - be careful that a short term "opportunity" doesn't turn into a long-term S***ing opportunity of you by the organization....[/quote]True, but once a person has legitimate skills and can document experience on a resume, there's a lot of love out there for competent SQL Server DBAs...Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:12:01 GMTK. Brian Kelleyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxSince I doubt heavily that they are paying you for experience you don't have....learn as fast as you can, learn to be good using the tips above, and THEN look to have your position adjusted.Sounds to me that someone is trying to get a DBA "on the cheap". A good DBA tends to have a lot of challenges and responsibilities to take on. Once you understand what your real responsibilities are, and how to do them well, and you've proved yourself - don't let yourself be taken advantage of.In other words - be careful that a short term "opportunity" doesn't turn into a long-term S***ing opportunity of you by the organization....Fri, 26 Oct 2007 09:50:31 GMTMatt Miller (#4)http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxRudy's [u][b]only[/b][/u] rule:Before you take any action make sure that you can recover from it prior to taking it ;)Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:45:52 GMTrudy - Doctor "X"http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxI will have to assume that they already have some DBA's on staff. When I brought up Jr DBA's, this is how I determined when they were ready to advance. Now I am going to start this off assuming we are talking about a production DBA. Development DBA's are a different breed and for that just do your best on whatever projects they give you. Don't argue (a lot, do express your opinion) if someone more senior says that it should be different than you think.First of all. You expect them to break something, so you are VERY cautious to give them as little rope as possible. The last thing I wanted was my helping them to make my life a mess.Don't LIE about what you do. If you break something, tell your senior people as soon as possible to get it fixed. Don't do or try anything you have been asked NOT to do (this will prevent the fear of telling the truth).As questions, but be also be cognizant of anxiety. If they are in a panic, don't add to it by bothering your senior people. Just watch and LEARN! I would expect that most mistakes won't be repeated and NEVER repeated more than once. Remember just like a Doctor "First DO NO HARM!" Should be your rule of thumb for every production DBA.When in a critical situation (it will happen). DON'T PANIC!!!! Even when you are 100% sure about your course of action.. STOP! Think about everything it will impact again. What you will do if it doesn't fix the problem. Next think about how you might undo what you did. And lastly. Try to take notes some how of exactly everything you are doing. This could be very important to review after the fact in the event you need to do a post mortem report.If your advisors are anything like me. I simply would grant them more and more responsibilty over time. The more mistakes the longer I would wait until I gave more responsiblity. Understand that I would often stretch new hires out over a YEAR before I let them take a night shift on a production server. Just to give you an idea of how long it takes. I am a well seasoned production(15 years) DBA and I was a System Admin for 5 years before that. I recently changed jobs and took over an existing site. It took me a good 4 months before I was comfortable with the process at my new company.Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:30:09 GMTBob Faziohttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxThanks a lot everyone for your repliesThu, 25 Oct 2007 06:08:34 GMTNisha N.Kumarhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxI guess it really depends on what the company defines as a good DBA . In my Previous company i worked mainly as a developer but was then slowly pushed into the role as a part time DBA. I started of by trying to get the basic tasks right , Every DBA role has some amount of routine Tasks that are part and parcel of the job. get them right , the rest are one off issues that your better of learning by trail and error.I am not a fully qualified DBA but the people in my company feel i am good at it :-) Thu, 25 Oct 2007 05:04:29 GMTJayanth_Kuruphttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspx[quote][b]Nisha N.Kumar (10/24/2007)[/b][hr]Yes I am fresher just out of college.I had undergone training for some months but have never worked on live projects.But they have put me in a project and asked me to convince them as a DBA.How can I convince them?I have never worked til now on live servers.[/quote]Grab highly recommended books, read and study like mad. Since you're playing catch-up, you're going to have to spend a lot of your own time to come up to speed.Anything that is operational related, security, backup/restore, make sure you understand exactly what you're doing before you do it. Double check your steps before starting. Make sure you have your sources identified (Books Online, MVP blogs, forums like here) and well-researched so if something goes wrong, it's not because you haven't tried to cover every detail.With respect to development work, look at your query plans. Find out which ones don't perform well. Run the traces to determine how the app is performing. Bring forward recommendations of what to fix, as well as how to fix it. Quantify improvement where possible (test a fix on a dev server and show the difference in query plans, for instance).In other words, seek to at least satisfy whenever anything is asked of you. Look to excel whenever possible. You're trying to prove to them that they aren't making a mistake letting you take the reins. Therefore, you have to show you do your research, you are meticulous in your planning, you have good analysis skills, and you are working hard to make the project succeed. That's how you prove yourself if you're green.Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:07:24 GMTK. Brian Kelleyhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxWell not to sound rude, but I wonder how you got the job in the first place. Most companies ask a lot of questions, but then again some dont. All I can say is learn, learn, and read, and read. Otherwise you will have big problems. I know 2 people who went right from school into a job both never working on servers before, and both got their MCSDBA but had never been in a prod environment, or designed anything.. Sadly both got fired very quickly, one because the previous DBA left the system in a bad state and they didnt have the background to keep up. And the second one because they made a stupid mistake. If you are the sole DBA then its a tough question, and there is no easy answer to prove to them. Just be careful because what you design for them now will stick with them for a long time and if its not rightWed, 24 Oct 2007 11:58:31 GMTdigdave7http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxBetter talk to yur PM and understand how best your services are required to play a role for DBA. Being a fresher, I'm not sure the volume of the data thats getting transmitted here and there and how gonna you handle stuff like that... Have a discussion with him and find out how is next person really having expertise on the database side. Take inputs from them and slowly start off with your tasks..Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:23:09 GMTVSVaidyahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxYes I am fresher just out of college.I had undergone training for some months but have never worked on live projects.But they have put me in a project and asked me to convince them as a DBA.How can I convince them?I have never worked til now on live servers.ThanksWed, 24 Oct 2007 08:06:31 GMTNisha N.Kumarhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxAccdng to me, initially 1 has to work around with the databases as a developer and to the most extent use the same as a back end for developing application.During that stage itself, he has to read/get information about more administration stuff with the databases. Then only chances of becoming a professional DBA will be valid. Now-a-days, DBA has to play vital role by also doing development activity with related to databases especially since the introduction of SSIS,SSAS & SSRS...Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:50:27 GMTVSVaidyahttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxOh, and as a fresher - I assume you mean just out of college or university?If I was looking to hire someone just out of university, I'd want to get a feel for your knowledge around administration, database design and t-sql, but, I'd also be looking at your potential and how I feel you can develop as DBA.So, for an interview, if a DBA is what you want to be and that is the career path you have chosen, let the employer know about it...Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:48:55 GMTClive Stronghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxTough question :)Taking classes in SQL Server really only teaches you the fundamentals of administration and design. And yes, you could jump straight from these classes into a job.That said, if you are joining a company as the only DBA, you'll have a steep learning curve ahead of you. If the previous DBA left the environment in a healthy state, then it buys you some time to get to grips and learn (a lot) more about SQL Server. On the other hand, if the previous DBA left the environment with performance problems, bad database designs etc then you really are trying to run before you can walk and I would not advise this for a new DBA.If I was in your position, however, I would be more interested in looking for junior roles. This site is a fantastic medium for learning and you also cannot beat having experienced DBA's sitting across the room from you.Good luckWed, 24 Oct 2007 07:40:24 GMTClive Stronghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic414413-146-1.aspxHi,Could anyone please help me out...How can one prove themself to be a successful DBA as a fresher.How is it possible to work as a DBA without any prior experience after having got training.How can one convince the organization that they will be a successful DBA.Thanks in advance..:)Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:21:07 GMTNisha N.Kumar