InstantForum.NET v2.9.0SQLServerCentralhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/notifications@sqlservercentral.comSat, 25 May 2013 06:06:37 GMT20http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]David Burrows (2/2/2010)[/b][hr]Oh! And btw Barry nice article :-DShort and succinct :satisfied:[/quote]thanks, dave!Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:41:38 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]David Burrows (2/2/2010)[/b][hr][quote]Man, do I ever agree with that! Books are great but having an experienced Mentor to teach and guide you, even if it's just an hour a day, is worth his/her weight in gold. --Jeff Moden[/quote]Nice Jeff ;-)Can you spare me some time ... just as soon as I figure how to cross the pond :w00t:[/quote]Just a couple of more years, David. My understanding is that the Gulf Stream is going to shut down due to glacial melt caused by global warming and we should be able to drive across on the ice. :-P I'm going to open up a beer and pork chop stand half way across. :hehe: Of course, it'll be WIFI enabled. :cool:Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:07:52 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxOh! And btw Barry nice article :-DShort and succinct :satisfied:Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:18:35 GMTDavid Burrowshttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote]Man, do I ever agree with that! Books are great but having an experienced Mentor to teach and guide you, even if it's just an hour a day, is worth his/her weight in gold. --Jeff Moden[/quote]Nice Jeff ;-)Can you spare me some time ... just as soon as I figure how to cross the pond :w00t:Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:16:00 GMTDavid Burrowshttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxYes, they have MCM's for Exchange, Windows Server Active Directory, Office Comminucations Server, SharePoint, and SQL Server.I'm taking the SQL MCM in the spring. :-)Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:50:56 GMTRobert Davishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxNot sure what interviewer you are referring to but... what was the point of that comment? :-D If I didn't see it on the exam then the exam is invalid??Yes, I know a little about DBCC ShowContig. I teach both SQL Server 2005 and 2008 classes including IS, RS, AS, implementing, maintenance and Transact-SQL. (Yes I am aware of your credentials and their relative weight to my meager experience) But only a small percentage of what I cover is on the exams, mostly an in-depth understanding of the basics, but not necessarily every Transact-SQL statement on msdn, my point being you may have a pretty solid grasp on the basics but maybe not have heard of some statements. Probably not THAT one :-) but I am not totally surprised. How much experience should the MCITP exams test for? For someone with 10 years or so they have a DIFFERENT certification called Microsoft Certified Masters (as you probably well know). Maybe this is more in line with the level of knowledge that you expect from a mere MCITP... hehe... perhaps the MCITP is more highly rated than it deserves. It's not a Doctoral degree, just a certification that might make you an extra $5k a year or so at the right company. The MCM is a much more intense and thorough evaluation of your DBA skills and is meant for only the most serious data cowboys (they have MCM's for many different areas, too, right?). Maybe that is the one that might add value to your resume. That is... if you are up to it ;-) My guess is, with your background, you very well might be. I know I'm not.... yet.Happy trials!!! (mispell intentional)Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:50:14 GMTPeter Trasthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxAnd I do agree completely. I think the certification tests should be a measurement of your knowledge gained through experience rather than gained through memorizing a test guide. I don't think they are good for teaching you to be a DBA, but they may be a valid resource for showing you where you need improvement.Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:24:27 GMTRobert Davishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxGetting bogged down in semantics here. :-DWhether its Showcontig or sys.dm_db_index_physical_stats or whatever the next command will be - the point I was making is that someone with an MCITP did not know about Index Defragmentation, however that isn't his/her fault, that's down to the course/exams. In my experience I found MS based SQL exams and courses aren't real world enough, but I guess that's why sites and forums like this exist.I was simply stating that it isn't just about books/courses/exams sometimes it takes a few years of OTJ learning to get where you want to be, be it SQL DBA/Developer/Warehousing Guru.RBarryYoung made his points I just felt they were far too simplistic.[b][i]qh[/i][/b] Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:17:21 GMTquackhandle1975http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxI became a DBA because I wanted to too. Many moons ago, I interviewed to be a web developer (my first tech job), but what they really needed was a database developer, and since I showed more database aptitude than the others applying for the web dev job, they offered it to me.Over the next few years I flipped between web developer and database developer, but mostly database developer ... which became lead database developer. When they talked to me about switching to web dev full time, our DBA position just happened to be open, and I told them that I'd rather take the DBA position. So they made me head of the data management team. Many, many years later, I'm still a DBA.And just FYI, DBCC ShowContig was deprecated in SQL Server 2005. You should be using sys.dm_db_index_physical_stats now. That's why it's not on the certification test. So perhaps the interviewer know something you didn't know after all. Or at least he knew enough not to know the things he didn't need to know. :-PDBCC ShowContig is scheduled to be removed in the next version of SQL.Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:35:39 GMTRobert Davishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]quackhandle1975 (1/12/2010)[/b][hr]For a very, very simplistic view of becoming a SQL Server DBA 5 stars, however in the REAL WORLD only 1 star - how many of us actually wanted to become a DBA and just fell into it by accident? Hell I even had to retake Database Design in my degree as I didn't "get" Normalisation (eventually it clicked) however I didn't become a SQL DBA until nearly eight years later - now *then* 3NF et al became very handy.[/quote]Not sure that I understand what your point is here, but my article is NOT aimed at people who already have a well-planned out career path for becoming a DBA, including plenty University courses supporting it. Rather it is for folks for whom this is either something of a late decision or else a complete surprise ("Mary, you're the new DBA."). In terms of absolute numbers or even percentages, I do not know how common this is, however I do know that 1) this is one of the most common questions that we get at SQLServerCentral, in fact I would estimate that it is about the fifth most common question. And, 2) I became a DBA through this route and by far, the majority of DBAs that I know, [i]IN THE REAL WORLD[/i], came through this route. When I went to college, DB Normalization wasn't even taught yet, Codd's work was still being published for the first times and the were no production Relational or SQL DBs on the market yet. So for the first half of my career, every DBA that I know had to learn Normalization on their own, OTJ or in company-paid training. [quote]How many companies acutally give people training? Not willingly I'd guess.[/quote]Depends on what you mean by "willingly". The vast majority of companies with enough paid IT staff to have "DBA" as a distinct position [i]do[/i] have paid training, however, you [i]usually[/i] have to ask for it or you don't get it. And it certainly is about 10 to 100 times more common and more likely than being able to get a good mentor.Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:41:36 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]quackhandle1975 (1/12/2010)[/b][hr]4. MS Courses/Exams - sure, they're nice to compliment your CV and brag to your collegues, but in my time I've only been on a few SQL2K and one 2005 course and have never taken any exams - i'd probably fail! :-D I had a conversation with a SQL DBA staffer colleague and I was taking about index fragmentation and using DBCC SHOWCONTIG and what scan density was and how to fix it all. He looked at me blankly then said he didn't know any of that - this guy has a MCITP for SQL Server 2005! :w00t: [b][i]quackhandle[/i][/b][/quote]lol... I don't remember seeing that particular DBCC statement on the MCITP exam questions either, although they check to make sure you know how to defrag indexes or data, even if you don't know how to view fragmentation. :) I suppose they don't expect you to know every available DBCC statement although I am little surprised that a DBA might not know that particular one.While I agree that there are probably many "certified" DBA's out there that cannot do or understand some common maintenance tasks, this does not automatically nullify the education that might be obtained in the pursuit of a certification. Yes, obviously, experience provides the best instruction in how to be a DBA but you might be shocked to know how much "basic" information and functionality is unknown to DBA's with over 10 years experience because they rely solely on their job experience and never bother to take a class or pursue a certification because they are already "in the trenches" so what could they possibly gain? I was recently surprised by 2 DBA's in one of my SQL Server 2008 implementation classes who had never heard of partitioned tables on multiple drives and the benefits of using them (as well as several other features of SQL Server that have existed since 2005). They immediately went back to work, implemented them and raved about the dramatic resulting increase in performance in their queries. And they each had over 15 years of experience. I would certainly say they know much more than I do overall because of their "trench" experience but no one knows everything and certainly much can be learned by taking classes and becoming certified. But certification is not the END. It is part of the means to become more knowledgeable and prove some level of knowledge in a given technology, kind of like going to college and getting a degree. I don't believe that certifications prove that you have reached the end of the highway and are at the top of the heap, just that you have been educated on most of the basic tools and methods to do the job well. Obviously, many DBA's, especially ones that frequent forums, are interested in knowing and doing everything to become an amazing technician. But don't discredit a method of learning and verifying your education that may add something to your arsenal of tools or your resume. If certifications were truly worthless, my inbox would not be full of job offers looking for certified technicians.And don't forget the people skills, the most deficient area for most technicians :) This alone has produced more return business with my clients than any awesome skills I have displayed. I have not found a certification for that one yet...KILL 51!!!Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:38:15 GMTPeter Trasthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxFor a very, very simplistic view of becoming a SQL Server DBA 5 stars, however in the REAL WORLD only 1 star - how many of us actually wanted to become a DBA and just fell into it by accident? Hell I even had to retake Database Design in my degree as I didn't "get" Normalisation (eventually it clicked) however I didn't become a SQL DBA until nearly eight years later - now *then* 3NF et al became very handy.How many companies acutally give people training? Not willingly I'd guess. I'd add a few other points for the real world:1. Get a mentor - a few posters mentioned this and this is how I got started.2. Buy one book and one book only - the rest is on BOL/Web/SSC (Unfortunately you could just buy Inside SQL Server 2000 however now they've split it into about four books - pick one! :-P3. Become a contractor. I've been a SQL DBA Contractor for nearly 10 years and in that time I've been a Developer, Production DBA, you name it I've had to fix it! :-D And it's probably only at this stage that I can fully understand SQL Server (I'm still working on AS!)4. MS Courses/Exams - sure, they're nice to compliment your CV and brag to your collegues, but in my time I've only been on a few SQL2K and one 2005 course and have never taken any exams - i'd probably fail! :-D I had a conversation with a SQL DBA staffer colleague and I was taking about index fragmentation and using DBCC SHOWCONTIG and what scan density was and how to fix it all. He looked at me blankly then said he didn't know any of that - this guy has a MCITP for SQL Server 2005! :w00t: I rest my case, m'lud.Rgds,[b][i]quackhandle[/i][/b]Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:32:47 GMTquackhandle1975http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]RACOONRACER (12/11/2009)[/b][hr]I just read the article and am now a full fleldge SQL Server DBA. YooHoo!! I feel my wallet fattening now.[/quote]Well, at least you have the first prerequisite for being a DBA... a good sense of humor. ;-)Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:23:15 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxI just read the article and am now a full fleldge SQL Server DBA. YooHoo!! I feel my wallet fattening now.Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:14:38 GMTRACOONRACERhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxGlad I could help, angelo.Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:20:31 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxJust the guidelines I was looking for. Thank you very much.Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:50:48 GMTangelo.akyeamponghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxThanks, Jeff... ;-)Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:38:36 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxI made my first reference to your good article for a post today, Barry. If it keeps up, I may just have to add the link to my signature line. :-)Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:14:02 GMTJeff Modenhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]dyfhid (12/5/2009)[/b][hr]Great Article, and, while a quick, short read, it covers the basics of pursuing the goal of becoming a DBA admirably.I've read through all the comments (and am glad finding a local chapter of PASS was mentioned) but one thing that I would add would be to follow SQL Tweeps on Twitter. Lists of them can be found easily enough. The answers that can be obtained through them and, even more so, the links and blogs and sheer volume of information tweeted about SQL Server nearly every day makes it an awesome resource.dyfhid on Twitter[/quote]Thanks, dyfhid!Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:34:53 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Robert Davis (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]I thought this was an excellent article. I agree with Barry's suggestion regarding certification. It's simply one of the things you can do to guide your training in new areas you might not otherwise experience in your day-to-day work. Speaking from experience, it does help you become a better dba.When I first became a dba, I got my SQL 2000 certification after working through a lot of self-tests and training materials. Later when I was much more advanced, I got the SQL 2005 certification with very little trouble. I worked through the sample tests, and that's it. Then when I got my SQL 2008 certification, I didn't study for it all. I just walked in and took the tests.Certification itslef didn't make me a better dba, but the training I pursued to get it definitely did make me better.[/quote]Thanks, Robert, my sentiment exactly.Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:03:02 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxGreat Article, and, while a quick, short read, it covers the basics of pursuing the goal of becoming a DBA admirably.I've read through all the comments (and am glad finding a local chapter of PASS was mentioned) but one thing that I would add would be to follow SQL Tweeps on Twitter. Lists of them can be found easily enough. The answers that can be obtained through them and, even more so, the links and blogs and sheer volume of information tweeted about SQL Server nearly every day makes it an awesome resource.dyfhid on TwitterSat, 05 Dec 2009 01:31:55 GMTdyfhidhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxI thought this was an excellent article. I agree with Barry's suggestion regarding certification. It's simply one of the things you can do to guide your training in new areas you might not otherwise experience in your day-to-day work. Speaking from experience, it does help you become a better dba.When I first became a dba, I got my SQL 2000 certification after working through a lot of self-tests and training materials. Later when I was much more advanced, I got the SQL 2005 certification with very little trouble. I worked through the sample tests, and that's it. Then when I got my SQL 2008 certification, I didn't study for it all. I just walked in and took the tests.Certification itslef didn't make me a better dba, but the training I pursued to get it definitely did make me better.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:11:40 GMTRobert Davishttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]scotjmcdermid (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]I would not recommend the Microsoft Self Study guides.First of all, there is a difference between learning to become a good DBA and trying to pass the certification exams. Certification will definitely look good on your resume, but the skills needed to be a DBA are not entirely the skills tested by the exams. And there are skills tested on the exam that you will probably never use in real life. I am not working as a DBA, but I have passed the Design and Implementation exam. For the purposes of preparing for the exams, my experience with these books is:(1) what the self study books try to explain they do a horrible job of explaining it, and even if you can figure out what they are talking about(2) the books don't go to sufficient depth so that you are prepared for the depth of questions you will get on the test.[/quote]My impression of the Self-study series is that you are expected to have some experience to make sense of the material based on the assumption that anyone prepping for a cert is NOT a newcomer to the technology. Certs are supposed to be pursued after you have SOME experience.... BUT even a newcomer can learn something from these books, especially if you do all of the labs and test prep material in the books.But I agree Scot, the book cannot give you everything you need. It is just one tool to learn about the technology and prepare to be certified in it. That is why I teach Instructor Led Training, to add the missing parts in a classroom environment and that is the value of class training: having a mentor/guide to navigate the troubled waters of training and cert prep to achieve your IT career goals. That is why IT education is STILL a booming business, because it still has real value. You might consider finding a local IT training center where you live to augment your self-study.Let me know if I can be of any assistance in your IT career planning!Chin up and all that :-)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:51:50 GMTPeter Trasthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]RBarryYoung (12/4/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]petertrast (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Anyone who has earned a Microsoft certification knows that there are some questions on the test that have more to do with Microsoft "best practices" than actual field experience. I am not sure if this is what Barry was referring to when he said learn the answers for the certification but you DO need to learn the Microsoft opinion on some subjects to get those questions right on the test. This plan closely follows my own methodology that I have incorporated into my plan to become an "exceptional dba" (some of you get this) and as a (current) trainer, I find this to be a simple, concise plan that gives new SQL DBA's-in-the-making a good starting point.I suspect that some of the resistance to that particular comment has more to do with antipathy towards "boot camps" and paper certs (and rightly so). Unfortunately, I see corporate students every week, with an average of 10 years of experience (and more) with little or no certifications. The surprising thing is how many features of the product that they have been using for 2 or 3 years that they have never seen or considered using. Training and especially studying for certifications will expose these to even experienced DBA's and expand their ability to get the job done while increasing the likelihood of job retention in a tough market and provide opportunity for better compensation. The main trouble that I see with career DBA's is that they forget that training needs to happen throughout their career and that few of us, if any, truly "arrive". I have noticed that the most awesome DBA's I have met never stop educating and certifying and I follow those who are successful (I hope :) )Along with Barry's recommendations I would like to add another awesome read "How to become an Exceptional DBA" by Brad McGeHee (free download somewhere on this site I believe).Happy querying!!![/quote]Great stuff, Peter. I agree with everything you said (including the some Cert question are more about the "Microsoft mindset" than about actual facts).[/quote]Makes me feel good being new to this forum that you would agree :-DI just want to clarify that while experience in the field may seem to contradict the Microsoft opinion on some scenarios, I tend to agree with the vast majority of Microsoft best practices since they have served me well overall and I find few exceptions where I have what I feel is a better way. That is a major reason that I am a huge proponent of training and certification and have personally reaped the benefits of both during my IT career, both in getting the interview and in being offered greater compensation specifically because of my certifications.Cheers!Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:57:23 GMTPeter Trasthttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxSorry, scot, that's not been my experience.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:48:17 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxI would not recommend the Microsoft Self Study guides.First of all, there is a difference between learning to become a good DBA and trying to pass the certification exams. Certification will definitely look good on your resume, but the skills needed to be a DBA are not entirely the skills tested by the exams. And there are skills tested on the exam that you will probably never use in real life. I am not working as a DBA, but I have passed the Design and Implementation exam. For the purposes of preparing for the exams, my experience with these books is:(1) what the self study books try to explain they do a horrible job of explaining it, and even if you can figure out what they are talking about(2) the books don't go to sufficient depth so that you are prepared for the depth of questions you will get on the test.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:35:59 GMTscotjmcdermidhttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspxOh and before anyone else says it:[h3] Shortest. Article. Ever![/h3]:-D(P.S.: anyone else getting tired of seeing my mug on this page?)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:13:40 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]timothyawiseman (12/4/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.[/quote]I see where you are coming from, but remember he said study for the certifications. I found doing that (ignoring the existence of the cheat guides) gave my initial learning period a very useful structure and an end goal that kept me focused. Some people don't need that structure or goal, but for me it was helpful.As for the certification itself, the existence of the cheat guides does diminish them, but when you are first transitioning they can be very helpful in getting interviews. I know when I was first changing career fields I was told openly by a couple of employers that the certification helped me get the interview, and I was told point blank by one person in a back and forth negotiations stage that he could raise his offer if I quickly finished the MCDBA.[/quote]Excellent, Tim! You not only beat me too it, you said it better too! :-PFri, 04 Dec 2009 12:52:43 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Alvin Ramard (12/4/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]Dave Schutz (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Also don't forget about your local SQL Server User Group or PASS chapter.[/quote]Ok, as a PASS Chapter leader, I am biased. I agree with Dave. This is probably one of the best places to go to meet other SQL Server professionals.To find a PASS Chapter near you, check out:[url]http://www.sqlpass.org/PASSChapters.aspx[/url]Oops, I almost forgot. Good article Barry.Pay attention folks, it's "The Sixty-Second Guide to becoming a SQL Server DBA" [b]NOT[/b] "The Guide to becoming a SQL Server DBA in 60 Seconds".[/quote]Heh, thanks, Alvin, I'm a big PASS supporter too.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:50:44 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]timothyawiseman (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]This does seem to be a tough crowd in the thread today.[/quote]Heh, that's OK Tim. Everyone knows that I'm a tough customer sometimes myself, so fair's fair. Thanks :-)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:49:28 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]james.douglas (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]The only thing that I was that was incorrect was the part about 'Getting your company to send you to training'! I worked at a HUGE company for 11 years and the only training I got was a free MS seminar on technology we never would use! It's really sad to say but it's like that in quite a few companies today. It has nothing to do with the economy of recent. It started years ago when companies started being cheap, hiring one guy to do three jobs, etc. BTW, at our company we had multiple dba's and the developers usually had to lend a hand to the SQLServer guys as they knew little about the product, and again NO TRAINING![/quote]No argument here, I've been in the same situation myself many times. That's why I actually said "[i]Try[/i] to get your company to send you to training." Sure, many companies do not provide adequate training, but unlike Mentors, every company is [i]capable[/i] of providing it. And the surest way I know of to actually get training from your company is to *ask* for it. Repeatedly. As often as they will tolerate it. Because this is definitely an area where that old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" applies.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:47:07 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Alan Vogan (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Wow! A lot of reaction to this article! Barry, I just want to say thank you for the 60 seconds. I'm looking at getting certified next year and I needed a starting point, which you've provided.[/quote]Thanks, Wayne! :-)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:41:08 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]kpeters-1146392 (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]seriously these suggestions will not steer you wrong, but i would think there are more then 5 steps. after being a dba for 15 years on most of the major platforms i would suggest as a base that strong t-sql and architecture, like what is heap and leaf data would be needed. anyone can study for a cert and answer questions, but that doesn't mean you understood the question or the answer. we have all interviewed people that have 5 plus years as a dba but don't know the difference between a varchar and a char. either way though, it's not a bad place to start.[/quote]Yep, this is really intended as a guide to getting started. Once you are actually doing the job, it should start to become clear what things you need to continue learning about.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:40:30 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]petertrast (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Anyone who has earned a Microsoft certification knows that there are some questions on the test that have more to do with Microsoft "best practices" than actual field experience. I am not sure if this is what Barry was referring to when he said learn the answers for the certification but you DO need to learn the Microsoft opinion on some subjects to get those questions right on the test. This plan closely follows my own methodology that I have incorporated into my plan to become an "exceptional dba" (some of you get this) and as a (current) trainer, I find this to be a simple, concise plan that gives new SQL DBA's-in-the-making a good starting point.I suspect that some of the resistance to that particular comment has more to do with antipathy towards "boot camps" and paper certs (and rightly so). Unfortunately, I see corporate students every week, with an average of 10 years of experience (and more) with little or no certifications. The surprising thing is how many features of the product that they have been using for 2 or 3 years that they have never seen or considered using. Training and especially studying for certifications will expose these to even experienced DBA's and expand their ability to get the job done while increasing the likelihood of job retention in a tough market and provide opportunity for better compensation. The main trouble that I see with career DBA's is that they forget that training needs to happen throughout their career and that few of us, if any, truly "arrive". I have noticed that the most awesome DBA's I have met never stop educating and certifying and I follow those who are successful (I hope :) )Along with Barry's recommendations I would like to add another awesome read "How to become an Exceptional DBA" by Brad McGeHee (free download somewhere on this site I believe).Happy querying!!![/quote]Great stuff, Peter. I agree with everything you said (including the some Cert question are more about the "Microsoft mindset" than about actual facts).Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:35:45 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Dave Schutz (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Also don't forget about your local SQL Server User Group or PASS chapter.[/quote]Good point, Dave.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:31:42 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Jeff Moden (12/4/2009)[/b][hr][quote][b]Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Great primer Barry. It covers the basics of what's needed very well. Since so many questions come through on the board around the concept of "How do I get started as a DBA" this is exactly what's needed.I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.[/quote]Heh... I knew we were kindred spirits on such topics. But I can't take a thing away from those good folks that did it the right way and then followed up on their training with some good hands on time. There are two types of people who are certified... and during and interview, you can tell. Hat's off to all those that took the high road.[/quote]Don't get me wrong, guys, I am not exactly busting with Certs myself :-D. But I didn't feel that I could tell folks to "study and learn" without some kind of concrete program to follow and the MS Certification are a great self-study program. Folks like us may be able to figure out what to study on our own, but DBAs just starting out need something more than "keep studying SQLServer on your own." :-)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:30:51 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]SuperDBA-207096 (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Barry,Pretty good article - it could launch someone down the path of becoming a DBA. Lots more to becoming a DBA, but it's a start.I like the idea of studying for the exams. I've taken alot of exams for M$ certs through the years and every time I've studied (mostly by using the products) I've learned stuff I didn't know about the products. Even with products I've used every day, by studying for the exam you may learn a facet that you weren't aware of in the product. Pretty good conceptMark[/quote]Thanks, Mark That was exactly my intent!Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:25:51 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]sibir1us (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Jerry! Yes you are right! A good mentor is the best thing for a beginner DBA. I remember my first days starting with SQL Server: afternoon beer with a good friend who was showing me how to write sql queries... :w00t:[/quote]Agreed, they are a great thing if you can get one, but many cannot. In 35 years as a software developer, the only mentor I ever had was the man who taught me to program when I was twelve (my Uncle). But for instance I have never had one for SQL, Relation DBs or SQL Server.So yes, they are great, but they are [i][b]not[/b][/i] necessary and I did not want to focus on something unnecessary that might be unavailable to most of those interested.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:24:48 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Jerry Sommerville (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Barry left out one suggestion I would make. try and find a mentor! If there are other DBA's in your company, go to one that you feel comfortable with and ask that person to be your mentor. You'd be shocked at how many people would say yes. Having a mentor can help alot when it comes to self study. As a life long student of all things IT, mentors in my career have been very encouraging and educational to me. Find one. If there is not one at your company, find on online.... Jerry[/quote]Great suggestion, Jerry. I did consider this but left it out primarily because so few new or aspiring DBAs have access to one. Willing or not, it's only the largest companies that are likely to have anyone *qualified* to be a DBA mentor.As for online mentors, I think that real mentoring is a personal and face-to-face activity (at least in the beginning). And I think that sites like SQLServerCentral are better online options. Just my opinion of course... :-)Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:19:03 GMTRBarryYounghttp://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic828605-1226-1.aspx[quote][b]Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)[/b][hr]Great primer Barry. It covers the basics of what's needed very well. Since so many questions come through on the board around the concept of "How do I get started as a DBA" this is exactly what's needed.I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.[/quote]Thanks Grant. As for the Certifications, my company aggressively pursues certifications, but not for the Cert itself, but rather for its value as a training program. And yes, as I alluded, you can effectively "cheat" your way through the tests and get the Cert without really knowing what you are supposed to, but in my company's opinion (and mine) you're really just cheating yourself when you do this. The real value in the MS Certification program is that is serves as a guide for what you [i]should[/i] know at that level, and that is how I intended it here.Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:12:06 GMTRBarryYoung