October 22, 2018 at 9:08 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Quitting Over Training
October 23, 2018 at 4:14 am
In regards to training, I can't really complain. The company has a budget for training set aside every year and for this I am thankful.
Often though, I'd rather be allocated time, say, to go through a Microsoft Training Kit on my own and study for an MCP. Usually training means official Microsoft courses, which are quite expensive in time and money and I could cover more ground with the Training Kit than with the course. The Training Kits are also more detailed while the courses are more superficial.
The courses are good for people who have done some study themselves, have questions and can both reinforce what they have learnt while having an opportunity to get the problems that they have run into answered.
And, as I have learnt, there is certainly no chance of passing an MCP exam from the courses alone.
October 23, 2018 at 4:53 am
Not sure if it's the same over there, here in the UK a lot of companies will fund training but if you leave within a certain period of time you have to pay it back.
October 23, 2018 at 6:47 am
From my perspective of being a retiree who spent 42 years in IT, I would have to recommend that you separate the education thing from your employment decisions. Granted it's a good thing when your employer will fund training and provide time. But in the long run, you may need to handle this by yourself. Over my time I had both employer funded training, and also did it for myself.
Many states have community college systems which provide a pretty good selection of technical training in evening hours and at very reasonable cost. Several times during my working years there were technical changes that I wanted to explore or areas that I needed training in order to keep advancing. I often enrolled in evening classes, a couple times even driving 50 miles after work and having to arrive late, then drive 40 miles home arriving around 10 pm, in order to develop a new skill. Another time there was an opportunity which required me to learn Fortran very quickly. I obtained the software and several books, and taught myself enough in a month enough to get the position and a nice salary increase.
Especially now, with the availability that we have of software on our personal systems, there is little reason to delay your learning hoping your employer will do it for you. Take control for yourself. The cost of an evening class or two could be returned in the first couple months of a nice salary increase when you do make an employment change. Or, (horror of horrors) you may need to forego a vacation this year to take a class on your own.
These are decisions for which you need to take responsibility instead of sitting around and waiting for someone to do it for you.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
October 23, 2018 at 7:05 am
skeleton567 - Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:47 AMFrom my perspective of being a retiree who spent 42 years in IT, I would have to recommend that you separate the education thing from your employment decisions. Granted it's a good thing when your employer will fund training and provide time. But in the long run, you may need to handle this by yourself. Over my time I had both employer funded training, and also did it for myself.Many states have community college systems which provide a pretty good selection of technical training in evening hours and at very reasonable cost. Several times during my working years there were technical changes that I wanted to explore or areas that I needed training in order to keep advancing. I often enrolled in evening classes, a couple times even driving 50 miles after work and having to arrive late, then drive 40 miles home arriving around 10 pm, in order to develop a new skill. Another time there was an opportunity which required me to learn Fortran very quickly. I obtained the software and several books, and taught myself enough in a month enough to get the position and a nice salary increase.
Especially now, with the availability that we have of software on our personal systems, there is little reason to delay your learning hoping your employer will do it for you. Take control for yourself. The cost of an evening class or two could be returned in the first couple months of a nice salary increase when you do make an employment change. Or, (horror of horrors) you may need to forego a vacation this year to take a class on your own.
These are decisions for which you need to take responsibility instead of sitting around and waiting for someone to do it for you.
While I do agree with the general sentiment for common basic skills, there are substantial instances where this just doesn't work. There are a lot of vendors where you simply can't get access to the training without your employer getting involved. Besides - your employer benefits too much from your skills for it to be acceptable for them to simply sit back and assume you will absorb the entire burden.
That doesn't absolve me from my own training. That said - if any employer forces me to absorb my own training without any help chances are I will start training for my NEXT employer.
Thankfully I do not have that issue currently. My current has a rich commitment to training.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
October 23, 2018 at 7:27 am
While I agree with the sentiment expressed I think it is foolish to storm out on the spot. Sure your pride might be elevated and you'll have a great story but how many thousands of dollars is that worth to you? What if you have dependents or debt or need medicine? Before this segways into an economics talk about having an emergency savings fund - most do not so what else can be done?
Agree with Steve. You are in charge of your career. Only you can decide what is best for you. A younger Jeff would have stormed out indignantly but I have learned to fight the right battles - I don't have to win them all - the war is more important. Be strategic. Looking for work while you are unemployed is so much harder than while still employed. Sometimes it is necessary to suffer through for a bit - all the while building yourself up.
I think sometimes we would benefit from being better negotiators. You don't have to pound your fist on the desk and demand training or else you walk. If your organization cannot afford (or does not typically) to spend $5,000 on each staff per year then maybe try for something else. They might not have the money for an in-person class but maybe can get a Pluralsight account. If they will not pay for a technical conference admission maybe they can pay for half the hotel cost? I have had better luck this way.
Lastly - there has never been a time in history with so much high quality free training, information, communications, etc. Everyone wants to just watch a video on YouTube to learn. I use it for some things but quite supplementary. I often tell people you need to buy a book and work through it - you learn by doing not by watching clips online. There is no substitute or hack for lack of effort so get after it!
October 23, 2018 at 8:07 am
Rumor has it my department has a training budget. It's a rumor because no one has ever been sent off for training. We ask and we're told to 'find some free stuff on the internet'.
It makes us wonder if there really is a budget, if the managers get a bonus for not spending it, or if it's being spent on other things.
We wonder this while we're finding time to hunt up and take free training on the internet.
October 23, 2018 at 8:36 am
...it's time to quit. Immediately.
I think most people would take this the way Steve indicated, not so much as "box up your stuff and walk out that instant" but instead as a "start taking your stuff home a bit at a time, use your own resources to find and take training, and actively search for a new job."
A previous employer of mine, I think was badly burned by the "sent people to training and it didn't help" issue. But, looking back on it, based on what I had been told (and no, I wasn't one of the sent to training folks,) the problem was the fault of both the business and the employees. I suspect, the business didn't set any expectations of what they wanted the staff to get from the training, so the staff did treat it as a 4-day company-paid vacation (IIRC, it was one of the big MS developer conferences, in Vegas...) The staff sent also didn't set any expectations for themselves, which again I feel goes back to how the business was (and may still be) running things. Namely, the direction the developers are going with something can change from week-to-week, so learning technology A because that's what they're doing this week but next week they're doing technology B and the week after C. How do you plan for that?
So, the business chose the "no one gets sent to training or conferences," a "scorched earth" approach.
Was this one of the reasons I left that employer? No, not really. At the time even this happened, I was primarily self-taught and doing things on my own, on my dime, to expand my knowledge. I did convince the management to send me to one conference, SQL In the City in Chicago one year, and I think what helped sell it was a couple things:
A) I came to them with a list of the workshops I both wanted to attend and which I felt would prove beneficial to the business
B) Having been self-directed already, for quite a while, they expected that I wasn't going to turn this into a Chicago vacation (which I didn't)
October 23, 2018 at 9:42 am
I really agree with the sentiment of Alex Yates, but I wouldn't take it as far as he does. Working in a location where there's little other opportunities, I don't have the luxury to just "quit and go down the street to the next place". Trust me, I'm very envious of all I read of the current economy in which IT and developer pros have such options. Of all the companies I've worked for over the years, only one had a mind to invest in their employees by offering training. Where I currently work, no one in IT/dev has gone to training in literally decades (so those who've been around for 30 years tell me).
My current employer has instituted one major change this year. They're allowing everyone in IT (IT and Dev) to do online training using Lynda.com. Since this is the first time in decades they've allowed this, I consider this a big deal. I take advantage of it. But I'm concerned that we might lose it, because as far as I know very few of my colleagues use it. My guess is that after decades of having no training, they have become complacent and are used to just getting by with whatever they knew when they first joined.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
October 23, 2018 at 10:26 am
carl.eaves - Tuesday, October 23, 2018 4:53 AMNot sure if it's the same over there, here in the UK a lot of companies will fund training but if you leave within a certain period of time you have to pay it back.
I've negotiated this in the past in the US as well.
October 23, 2018 at 10:28 am
JustMarie - Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:07 AMRumor has it my department has a training budget. It's a rumor because no one has ever been sent off for training. We ask and we're told to 'find some free stuff on the internet'.It makes us wonder if there really is a budget, if the managers get a bonus for not spending it, or if it's being spent on other things.
We wonder this while we're finding time to hunt up and take free training on the internet.
I think that's fine. Budgets might be limited, but if they'll give me time, that's almost as valuable.
October 23, 2018 at 10:32 am
I've never had paid training offered in 18 years, multiple jobs. I also live somewhere where you can't find another job easily, plus I'm closing in on 60. My current boss wanted to send me to VM training when we first moved to virtual, but was turned down. It's a small business and we're a 2 person shop. We do everything except server maintenance. That includes phones and security cameras (ugh). They hired me because they wanted custom reports and to fix a C# program a contractor wrote. I can't really complain, though, even though there's not much vacation and if Christmas falls on the weekend we don't get a day off at all. I can leave anytime to drive my son home, go to school conferences, etc.... I've been know to go the the DMV and renew my license. 🙂 The school is 2 minutes away and I'm 9 minutes from home. That all counts for something!
October 23, 2018 at 10:34 am
Rod at work - Tuesday, October 23, 2018 9:42 AM...I consider this a big deal. I take advantage of it. But I'm concerned that we might lose it, because as far as I know very few of my colleagues use it. My guess is that after decades of having no training, they have become complacent and are used to just getting by with whatever they knew when they first joined.
Most employees don't take advantage of virtual training. It's sad, but I think providing the sub without some group time or some goals, doesn't help. Most people need some motivation, contest, competition, etc.
Glad you're taking advantage.
October 23, 2018 at 11:13 am
Most universities offer technical training courses, and there are Microsoft training centers in every metropolitan city. If your employer is a Microsoft partner, then you'll get plenty of invites for free workshops. Often times it's the employee's own fault for not doing some research or making an unreasonable request; like when the office is in Chicago and the employee asks to attend a $5000 three day SQL Server seminar... in Hawaii. 😛
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 23, 2018 at 2:47 pm
The times I have had training have been a complete waste of time (Prince2, Sharepoint Adminstration etc). I also have a pattern of leaving companies if I am not learning anything 🙂 Luckily in this fast-paced industry you will almost always learn new skills on the job... and now I have accelerated that by switching from permanent to contracting.
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